Where has all the money gone? Part Deux

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This is a continuation of a previous thread of mine from September 2013:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt241230.html

Since necromancy has become rather boring after DnD 4.0, I decided to create a new thread rather than reanimate an old one...
Unless we are playing Magic: The Gathering, in which case I would have to reconsider. Reanimator Decks are Wicked!
Anyway, the short story is that "money has gone to college".

Pew Research just released an updated study on the one mentioned in my previous thread (still US data, though). I believe the results in the following two graphs speak more or less for themselves...



Oh, and the earnings are adjusted for inflation and reported in 2012 dollars.

Note that one does not automatically get a 50 percent raise compared to someone with some college education just from completing a bachelor. The category is "Bachelor degree or more", thus including Master, Professional and Doctorate degrees.

Another quite interesting finding - in my opinion, in the least - is the following:



While 78 percent of Science & Engineering majors and 72 of business major report having a job which very closely or somewhat closely matches their education, only 60 percent of Social Science/Liberal Arts/Education majors report the same thing. If one looks solely at those reporting a "Very closely" connection between job and major, Science & Engineering stands out even more.

And while we are in the education department, I guess I'll just throw this one in just for the trolols:



The Times They Are a-Changin', Indeed.

Sources:
Summary: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/02/ ... o-college/
Full report: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/files/20 ... 1-2014.pdf
Methodology: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2014/02/ ... ta-sources
Summary # 2: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... -husbands/

Please discuss.

The problem that these studies conveniently IGNORE is that those college grad with higher incomes often have a monstrous amount of debt that their higher incomes DO NOT offset.

So, you do tend to earn more, but you wind up paying massive loans back (with interest), and at the end of the day, you might never do better than an enterprising high school graduate. I know lots of people with nothing more than high school or two years of community college who make damn good money doing a skill that doesn't require a 4-year degree. If they later get a 4-year degree, they might work their way through school or otherwise not have to worry about finding a good job afterwards because they have the WORK EXPERIENCE to open doors before they graduate.

The average college graduate brings nothing to the table but a questionable education that so many before already offer. Employers want people with proven ability to do the job, not a wet-behind-the-ears graduate.

If I understand the data correctly, the sample focuses on those aged 25-32 years. That would be only about 7 earning years out of a possible work life of more like 40 years (ages 25-65).

I think data about lifetime earnings could be interesting additional information, especially if one's intent is to consider the net present value of education.

According to those figures, the average "college-or-higher" graduate earned £15,500 more than a "two year" student and £17,500 more than a "high school only" graduate.

Your argument only holds water if the average student loan repayments are £15,500 p/a, which seems unlikely.

You would perhaps be better off arguing that graduates work jobs that make them unhappy, or some such- it seems pretty conclusive that they earn more.

^^^
I agree
very interesting reading

Um, have you checked what college costs in the USA? Graduating with $40-60K for 4 years is more and more common...especially if mommy and daddy didn't have a lot saved up before you went to school. Now, graduating with $100K or more for 4 years is becoming common.

It's easy to offset numbers by averaging over the whole, but a large section of students are forced to finance 100% that's not covered by grants and scholarships.

The more you owe, the more you have to earn after graduation just to be on track to repay the debt in the repayment period.

I work for the U.S. government, and we are nearly always hiring science/engineering people. The federal gov. will cancel all your federal student loans if you work for the gov. for ten years. ( http://www.finaid.org/loans/publicservice.phtml and http://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/fo ... ic-service )

Go to Harvard and live there in a suite, buy everything you want, and rack up $300,000 getting multiple degrees. Then go work for the U.S. gov, make the minimum payment each month, and have it forgiven

If I had any confidence that it would work out that way for me, I'd be so there.

Sadly, I was supposed to have no problem finding a decent job when I finished graduate school. Still hasn't happened.

Fool me one, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Are you in the "social sciences/liberal arts/education" college major category ?

There's a thing called student loans. Loans of 60,000 dollars are not uncommon here in Norway for three year bachelor's degrees.

I don't think you understand the point I am making.

OK, worst case scenario, a student is $100k in debt when they graduate. They stand to earn $15,500 more per year than they would if they hadn't bothered. If all of that money goes towards loan repayments, they will have paid back their loan in 6.5 years, and from then everything else will be profit. Even if there is a ridiculous rate of interest, 10 years will be enough to pay it back, at which point they'll have over 30 years to earn more - assuming the gap is the same through until retirement, the average graduate will earn $400,000 more over their lifetime than the average non-graduate (and that's just the ones in full-time work). Subtract $100,000 that they missed out on by not working between the ages of 18 and 22, and it's still a big gap.

Of course, there are going to be exceptions, but the smart thing to do is usually still college.

Walrus, I agree.

Mass Communications and Political Science...I suppose so. I have a graduate degree in law (JD), but I found the actual practice of law unworkable for me.



I bolded the BIG VARIABLE you have in your supposition.

Using your number (and presuming a 40 hour work week), the college graduate will have to make $7.45 PER HOUR more than the high school graduate. In reality, most college graduates are lucky to get a job paying $25K/year. This isn't much more than what a high school graduate can earn which is about $18K/year. For your projection to be correct, a college graduate would have to get a job making $33,500/year to beat out the high school graduate. I don't see hardly anyone over here making that kind of money after graduation....unless they can get one of the few government jobs, and some of those don't require a college degree to obtain (e.g., law enforcement).

While technically you could repay a loan in 30 years on a $25K/year income, the reality is that unless you have a multiple-income household and/or don't have a spouse and children, it's not that feasible. Need a replacement vehicle? That's a new monthly expense. Have medical bills? That's another expense.

You could live very frugally and live on 3 for $1 mac and cheese while repaying your debt, but then you are overweight with heart disease by age 40 because you don't eat right and exercise. Just eating a simple but healthy diet costs more money.

The numbers they throw about are lies. Averaging a large pool allows the insanely well-off to balance a larger number of failures. We have the same dispute with lawyer incomes. The ones making millions offset the many going hungry. Some have proposed a two-tier statistic...one for $500,000+ earners and another for under $500,000, but that would probably scare off a lot of prospective victims (err...students) being lured into law school each year.

I work at the patent office, and we hire many J.D. people, however, they have some background in a technical area. Such a shame if you are unemployed.
Getting hired by the government is not hard and no prior work experience required where I work, and 100k pay/year is easily obtainable after a few years. You work from home, so it is the only job that I have been able to hold with my autism. I was fired/quit about nine prior jobs.