Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

if healthcare is a human right then why is food not?

Page 1 of 3 [ 38 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

chris5000
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Aug 2012
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,599
Location: united states

23 Feb 2014, 7:53 pm

why is food not free in country's with free healthcare? im pretty sure you need food to live more than healthcare so why is all food not free?



appletheclown
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2013
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,378
Location: Soul Society

23 Feb 2014, 8:11 pm

Because the commie's poison hasn't gotten that far into our government's veins.


_________________
comedic burp


ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Gender: Female
Posts: 12,265

23 Feb 2014, 8:11 pm

Where I live, a lot a times the food is free.



The_Walrus
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator

User avatar

Joined: 27 Jan 2010
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,861
Location: London

23 Feb 2014, 8:14 pm

chris5000 wrote:
why is food not free in country's with free healthcare? im pretty sure you need food to live more than healthcare so why is all food not free?

Because markets.

People are given money, with which they can buy an adequate supply of food. There is much more choice about what to buy though, so it makes more sense to leave that choice with the consumer than just give them free food.

Despite that, there are organisations that give free food to the needy.



Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

23 Feb 2014, 8:18 pm

chris5000 wrote:
why is food not free in country's with free healthcare? im pretty sure you need food to live more than healthcare so why is all food not free?


The healthcare isn't actually free. It's paid for collectively by taxes. Consider the nightmare logistics of attempting to have all food paid for collectively and distributed collectively as well.



thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

23 Feb 2014, 8:28 pm

chris5000 wrote:
why is food not free in country's with free healthcare? im pretty sure you need food to live more than healthcare so why is all food not free?


because we have price system based economic systems which place value on spending power, not human need.

In countries like the UK, Universal health care systems came about not inherently because the UK is more left wing or more socialist than America but because of the direct effect of World War 2.

Had mainland America been hit hard by blitzes, it would probably have a more european style attitude towards healthcare provision.

Yes though, i do ask the same question. I agree that the NHS doesnt go far enough. Why can't we have a national education service, national utility service, national nutrition service or even national transport service that does across the board what the NHS does for medicine? The money is there for it, if only our politicians had the spine to pursue it.


_________________
Being 'normal' is over rated.

My deviant art profile


Ganondox
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 7 Oct 2011
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,777
Location: USA

23 Feb 2014, 9:58 pm

chris5000 wrote:
why is food not free in country's with free healthcare? im pretty sure you need food to live more than healthcare so why is all food not free?


Because food is more than substance, there is range of food of a range of flavors. It's a commodity. While ineffective and usually understocked, there is usually somesort of institution to ensure the foodless are provided with some level of sustenance.


_________________
Cinnamon and sugary
Softly Spoken lies
You never know just how you look
Through other people's eyes

Autism FAQs http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt186115.html


thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

23 Feb 2014, 10:17 pm

Ganondox wrote:
chris5000 wrote:
why is food not free in country's with free healthcare? im pretty sure you need food to live more than healthcare so why is all food not free?


Because food is more than substance, there is range of food of a range of flavors. It's a commodity. While ineffective and usually understocked, there is usually somesort of institution to ensure the foodless are provided with some level of sustenance.


Perhaps but food at its most basic level shouldn't be commodified.

Its necessary for the preservation of life therefore should be regarded as a human right.


_________________
Being 'normal' is over rated.

My deviant art profile


sliqua-jcooter
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,488
Location: Burke, Virginia, USA

23 Feb 2014, 10:17 pm

chris5000 wrote:
why is food not free in country's with free healthcare? im pretty sure you need food to live more than healthcare so why is all food not free?


This is a somewhat disingenuous question, based on faulty assumptions.

You assume that in countries that provide state-funded healthcare that all such care is free - this is often (perhaps always) not the case.

On a societal level, a minimum standard of living is defined for the populace that dictates what lengths that society will go to in order to maintain that minimum standard of living (and, hopefully, progressively raise it over time). Countries which enjoy state-sponsored healthcare have included a level of minimum healthcare in their standard of living - but to exceed that standard of living, the individual is responsible for that on their own. For instance, purely cosmetic surgery isn't covered by any state-sponsored healthcare that I'm aware of.

Thus, the reason foie gras isn't free is the same reason why the Government won't pay for your nose job - it's not included in the standard of living we have set for ourselves.


_________________
Nothing posted here should be construed as the opinion or position of my company, or an official position of WrongPlanet in any way, unless specifically mentioned.


sliqua-jcooter
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,488
Location: Burke, Virginia, USA

23 Feb 2014, 10:21 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Perhaps but food at its most basic level shouldn't be commodified.


Traditionally, governmental attempts to subsidize foodstuffs have lead to disastrous consequences.

The current abundance of cheap, unhealthy processed foods is a direct result of US corn and grain subsidies, for instance.


_________________
Nothing posted here should be construed as the opinion or position of my company, or an official position of WrongPlanet in any way, unless specifically mentioned.


luanqibazao
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 754
Location: Last booth, Akston's Diner

23 Feb 2014, 10:26 pm

Food does not fall from the sky. It has to be planted, grown, harvested, raised, slaughtered, butchered, prepared, transported, packaged, likely transported again. The people who do all that, are they your slaves?



thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

23 Feb 2014, 10:30 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
Perhaps but food at its most basic level shouldn't be commodified.


Traditionally, governmental attempts to subsidize foodstuffs have lead to disastrous consequences.

The current abundance of cheap, unhealthy processed foods is a direct result of US corn and grain subsidies, for instance.


that could be, and is more likely to be an indictment of US corner cutting under-investment rather than the idea of subsidised food per sae.


_________________
Being 'normal' is over rated.

My deviant art profile


thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

23 Feb 2014, 10:32 pm

luanqibazao wrote:
Food does not fall from the sky. It has to be planted, grown, harvested, raised, slaughtered, butchered, prepared, transported, packaged, likely transported again. The people who do all that, are they your slaves?


Well yes, that would be the case if you were solely referring to small, sustinance farmers. However here in the west particuarly, as we all know, that is not where our food comes from.

Therefore, your argument makes faulty assumptions.

Namely-

1- that farms should be privately owned by for profit organisations.
*particularly since these companies demonstrably produce low quality food and appalling standards of animal welfare, all for the gain not necessarilly of labourers but a tiny number of executives.
Why should the labourers, transport drivers or slaughtermen be the slaves of the executives any more than any one else?

2- that the current economic mode of currency for produce is the only one operable.
If we have a resource based system of economics in operation it removes the profit motive.


_________________
Being 'normal' is over rated.

My deviant art profile


thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

23 Feb 2014, 10:43 pm

sliqua-jcooter wrote:

You assume that in countries that provide state-funded healthcare that all such care is free - this is often (perhaps always) not the case.
.


To me, the issue is not so much whether the healthcare is free, moreover it is available at the point of demand irrespective of your circumstances or ability to pay.

Also, the fact that your suitability for treatment is being guaged by a doctor rather than a insurance company based on profit motivated reasons is another big factor.


_________________
Being 'normal' is over rated.

My deviant art profile


sliqua-jcooter
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,488
Location: Burke, Virginia, USA

23 Feb 2014, 10:47 pm

thomas81 wrote:
that could be, and is more likely to be an indictment of US corner cutting under-investment rather than the idea of subsidised food per sae.


Not quite, although that's certainly what it has become.

The food policy was originally designed during the Great Depression to turn corn and wheat into staple crops that everyone could afford, as well as to provide guarantees for farmers to continue to plant grains, and to plant more grains to combat the dust bowls.

What ended up happening was such an overabundance of grain - particularly corn - that a large chunk of university research was being put into new ways to use corn and other grains. This has led to numerous discoveries, chief among them for purposes of this discussion being High Fructose Corn Syrup.


_________________
Nothing posted here should be construed as the opinion or position of my company, or an official position of WrongPlanet in any way, unless specifically mentioned.


sliqua-jcooter
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,488
Location: Burke, Virginia, USA

23 Feb 2014, 10:51 pm

thomas81 wrote:
o me, the issue is not so much whether the healthcare is free, moreover it is available at the point of demand irrespective of your circumstances or ability to pay.


You missed my point entirely - the point wasn't that healthcare comes with some sort of cost (regardless of the fact that the individual doesn't pay that cost). It's certainly true, but also irrelevant - just as you've said.

The point was that no society will pay for absolutely any desired healthcare, but rather they pay for healthcare for the populace to sustain a standard of living, and that care beyond that standard is the responsibility of the individual. I used the example of purely cosmetic surgery as an example.


_________________
Nothing posted here should be construed as the opinion or position of my company, or an official position of WrongPlanet in any way, unless specifically mentioned.