My opinion on the definition of (legal) adulthood

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Lukario
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10 Apr 2014, 10:42 am

In rural places you sometimes have to take care of your family from probably age 5-7 and maybe as low as 3-4.

Some 100 years ago you were considered adult when you were confirmed at age 14-15.

Today you're considered an adult at age 18 and can participate in war but can't drink, go to nightclubs etc. before age 20-25.

However, I think being an adult means to take responsibility (for your own life) and I've noticed that people aged 30, 40, 60 and 80-90 don't act the same and have the same personalities/attitudes/behaviors so I think mental and physical development continues all life and that no one are fully adult even if you take responsibility (because you can also drop to take it) if you know what I mean, and since many people in their 20's have an unhealthy lifestyle by taking solarium, smoke, drink, eat (red) meat which is injected with hormones after going to the gym and look older than they are and genes don't have that much to do with it because it most likely happens due to freedom after age 18 when you do what you please with your body and healthy people who are abstinent to all this mostly look young until age 30 and probably after that too and when I was 10 I thought people my age were big and now people who are older than me think I'm a baby just like old people think of people in their 30's are young.

Lastly, people who are in their 40's seem to laugh superficially but old people seem to have understood that It's stupid so that alone is proof that development continues.



GGPViper
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10 Apr 2014, 11:06 am

A psychiatrist I met once very astutely pointed out:

- Some individuals have the mental maturity of adults at the age of 14.
- Some individuals still have the mental maturity of children at the age of 25.

... and she wasn't referring to someone intellectually disabled. Ordinary people mature at different rates, both physically and mentally.

Legal adulthood is drawing a line in the sand at a specific age for the purpose of enforcing rules.

Imagine if an attendant at a voting booth would have to make a full psychological evaluation of a 17 year and 11 month year old individual and a 18 year and 1 month year old individuals to discern if these two possessed the mental maturity necessary to be able to vote.

- Voting age
- Driving age
- Age of sexual consent
- Age of criminal responsibility

... These are all fairly arbitrary demarcations which are nonetheless necessary from a political perspective, as they regulate the behavior of so many people that an individual assessment of maturity is simply not possible.

Similar things could be said about the speed limit. For instance, why should a professional race driver be limited to the same speeds as the average Joe and Jane?

Professional race drivers clearly have superior training and ability than ordinary drivers, and can navigate their vehicles much safer at higher speeds. On the other hand, I'm not a very good driver, so perhaps there ought to be an even stricter speed limit in my case.

Yet once again, it would be extremely difficult to enforce rules if there was not a clear and objective standard of enforcement.



Sweetleaf
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10 Apr 2014, 11:17 am

I smoke and drink and people think I look as young as 12, but compared to many people who smoke cigarettes I don't really smoke as many and much of the time I end up lighting one up and sharing it with up to 4 other people and I don't drink that often usually when I do its a couple beers but I get tipsy sometimes. i don't know what solarium is and I do my best to eat healthy and certainly prefer meat that has not been injected with horemones or other weird crap but sometimes if I want to eat I can't be too picky due to my financial situation I also don't eat enough I really do need to eat more. I am 25 now so thinking I wont look that terribly much older in 5 years.

I like in some countries where people are treated more adultlike at a younger age, seems like perhaps it might help them develop things like moderation when it comes to alcohol or drugs, and how to be as safe as possible about it....keeping rights of adults off limits for so long seems to cause sort of an excitement of finally being 21 and people seem to overdo it just a bit. Then of course there is the underage drinking and what not....maybe they should re-assess ages for things because as far as I can tell there is no way to stop all the 16-20 year olds from drinking, or in my state smoking cannabis. Unless its changed recently the legal drinking age is 16 in Germany, and as far as I know that hasn't been too problematic. But I highly doubt they would change the laws here any time soon, since there would likely be social outrage.

Also though while I know there are situations where younger kids have a lot more responsibility and end up having to take care of their family more or less....but I am a bit skeptical kids 5 and under are capable of that, I mean at the age of 5 its possible in some ways I think I knew how to make at least some simple snacks at the age of 5. But cooking a meal on a stove would have been a different story and I probably would have burnt the house down. I'd say in these rural settings it might be best to invest in services that might help instead of expecting a 5 year old to take care of themselves as well as them....I hope thats not a common occurance. Also not so sure mental and physical development continues all life in a measurable sense....I think people through life experience learn things and that contributes a lot to different attitudes and behaviors of different age groups, more experience and exposure to things=more knowledge and then what people do with it.


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Kurgan
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10 Apr 2014, 11:26 am

Lukario wrote:
In rural places you sometimes have to take care of your family from probably age 5-7 and maybe as low as 3-4.

Some 100 years ago you were considered adult when you were confirmed at age 14-15.

Today you're considered an adult at age 18 and can participate in war but can't drink, go to nightclubs etc. before age 20-25.

However, I think being an adult means to take responsibility (for your own life) and I've noticed that people aged 30, 40, 60 and 80-90 don't act the same and have the same personalities/attitudes/behaviors so I think mental and physical development continues all life and that no one are fully adult even if you take responsibility (because you can also drop to take it) if you know what I mean, and since many people in their 20's have an unhealthy lifestyle by taking solarium, smoke, drink, eat (red) meat which is injected with hormones after going to the gym and look older than they are and genes don't have that much to do with it because it most likely happens due to freedom after age 18 when you do what you please with your body and healthy people who are abstinent to all this mostly look young until age 30 and probably after that too and when I was 10 I thought people my age were big and now people who are older than me think I'm a baby just like old people think of people in their 30's are young.

Lastly, people who are in their 40's seem to laugh superficially but old people seem to have understood that It's stupid so that alone is proof that development continues.


The world has changed over the past 100 years. Compare the technology in a Ford Model T with the technology in a brand new Toyota and see for yourself. An average 14 year old could learn to repair the former, but not the latter. (In fact, the complexity of the latter begins where the capabilities of someone with a low-average IQ begins.)

Adulthood in the past, meant being able to do manual labour and do it well enough to support your family.


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tern
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17 Apr 2014, 9:44 am

There is nothing necessary in drawing lines and making some folks suffer being on just the wrong side of them.

Stick everyone onto the voter's list when their birth is registered. Each can start voting when they personally feel interested and ready.

For the issues where there is physical danger involved to children, so that a legal difference between them and adults is needed, have each person choose for themself the time when to acquire the adult status. Some might want to acquire it for a test run with choice to drop it again. Some with learning disability might never choose to acquire it.

For sexual issues this will also have to be subject to puberty, and to size difference between partners. Prevent paedos by having a provision against
the incompatible body sizes of adults and kids, and a provision about age difference, and any others you can think of to add.



Kurgan
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17 Apr 2014, 10:00 am

tern wrote:
There is nothing necessary in drawing lines and making some folks suffer being on just the wrong side of them.

Stick everyone onto the voter's list when their birth is registered. Each can start voting when they personally feel interested and ready.

For the issues where there is physical danger involved to children, so that a legal difference between them and adults is needed, have each person choose for themself the time when to acquire the adult status. Some might want to acquire it for a test run with choice to drop it again. Some with learning disability might never choose to acquire it.

For sexual issues this will also have to be subject to puberty, and to size difference between partners. Prevent paedos by having a provision against
the incompatible body sizes of adults and kids, and a provision about age difference, and any others you can think of to add.


If everyone could vote as soon as they felt "interested and ready", we'd see a lot of elementary school students voting for whomever said that they should not have to do homework. People with an intellectual disability account for roughly 1% of the American population (the IQ curve is not completely normal distributed anymore due to the Flynn effect). I don't think that taking away the voting privileges of these people will affect the voting numbers significantly; most people with intellectual disability are well aware of their condition--and well aware of the fact that they're part of a marginalized group.


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GGPViper
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17 Apr 2014, 10:05 am

tern wrote:
There is nothing necessary in drawing lines and making some folks suffer being on just the wrong side of them.

Stick everyone onto the voter's list when their birth is registered. Each can start voting when they personally feel interested and ready.

For the issues where there is physical danger involved to children, so that a legal difference between them and adults is needed, have each person choose for themself the time when to acquire the adult status. Some might want to acquire it for a test run with choice to drop it again. Some with learning disability might never choose to acquire it.

For sexual issues this will also have to be subject to puberty, and to size difference between partners. Prevent paedos by having a provision against
the incompatible body sizes of adults and kids, and a provision about age difference, and any others you can think of to add.

Image



tern
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17 Apr 2014, 10:15 am

Kurgan wrote:
If everyone could vote as soon as they felt "interested and ready", we'd see a lot of elementary school students voting for whomever said that they should not have to do homework.
As a survivor of homework pressure abuse that was a modern slavery situation, gave me a stress collapse at age 14 and nearly killed me, as described here www.libed.org.uk/index.php/articles/414-high-learning-potential, that's who I would vote for too. While at present, the victims of homework have no vote until years after it's over, and homework's ruinous human cost has no mainstream publishing of the detailed evidence, no recognition in politics, and rare media coverage only when an educational theoriser addresses it.



0_equals_true
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17 Apr 2014, 10:16 am

It is an interesting idea though. I don't full agree with it, but understand the sentiment.

However you could say the the average voter might not be ever fully "ready" to vote.

So I agree with GGPViper it is fairly arbitrary but necessary.

There is an argument relating to being old enough to pay tax, but everyone pays sales tax, and you can be taxed on income before 18.



jrjones9933
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17 Apr 2014, 10:31 am

I like the idea of letting everyone vote as soon as they can navigate the process on their own.

As far as the rest goes, I can't add anything to what GGPViper said. Society imposes arbitrary and imperfect rules, even absurd rules, but all simple rules have that problem, and the complexity of any rule can't compare to the complexity of life and human individuality. Utilitarian ethical philosophy seems like the best choice for imposing age limits. Local conditions may merit different local rules, too.