The religious roots of the Arab-Israeli conflict

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Mootoo
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28 Jul 2014, 3:39 am

So... I get high and the one thing I end up doing for about an hour is read various articles on that conflict (despite desiring not to listen to the excessively gory news much anymore)... and it's bizarrely fascinating how the Jewish settlements, it seems, were established because their god somehow gave the land to them in some dream or another.

So, 150 children dead... because of some schizophrenic delusion?



DentArthurDent
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28 Jul 2014, 5:11 am

Yes Zionist nationalism was essentially forced onto the Palestinians whom it was convenient to describe as stateless, the areas given to the zionists were soon expanded to the point that the Palestinians occupy only a tiny proportion of what they once called home. It must be noted that not only Israel carried out a land grab, Jordan took a swathe as well. As I understand it Jews and Palestinians were getting along fairly peacefully until the WW2, then after the war the surviving Jews wanted out of Europe and decided to claim their "god given" birthright. The West decided that the best solution was to screw over the Palestinians and this is essentially what happened, with a little help from Jordan.


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Tequila
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28 Jul 2014, 3:14 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
As I understand it Jews and Palestinians were getting along fairly peacefully until the WW2


Ask the Jews of Hebron in 1929 about that.



AspE
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28 Jul 2014, 3:59 pm

That's the one thing I don't understand about Israel. They know they will have to get along with their neighbors eventually, why build settlements on disputed land? It's so wrong.



trollcatman
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28 Jul 2014, 5:31 pm

AspE wrote:
That's the one thing I don't understand about Israel. They know they will have to get along with their neighbors eventually, why build settlements on disputed land? It's so wrong.


I think they've pretty much concluded that they will never get along with their neighbours. They burned their ships behind them.



Bataar
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29 Jul 2014, 12:13 am

The PLO was founded in 1964, with a charter calling for the total eradication of Israel. At that time, Israel did not have even one single settlement anywhere in Gaza or the West Bank.

The settlements are a scapegoat, not the actual reason for the conflict. The reason for the conflict is simply the fact that Muslims believe the entirety of the region should be Islamic, and that Jews have no right to any land in the Middle East, no matter where or how small it might be. This is an ideological conflict, not a land dispute. Until people start to come to that realization, the conflict will persist indefinitely.

They are an issue that needs to be worked out in the negotiation process when a Palestinian state is finally created, but the point is that they are not the cause of the conflict. The way people continually zero in on them and use them as the excuse any and every time Hamas or the Palestinian Authority does something wrong - is extremely misleading.

"Hamas is firing rockets? It's because of the settlements!"
"Palestinians are promoting violence and kidnappings? It's because of the settlements!"
"Mahmoud Abbas refuses to even come to the negotiating table? It's because of the settlements!"
"Official Palestinian television is teaching children that Jews are the descendants of apes and pigs, and that they should all be killed? It's because of the settlements!"

The word "settlements" has become a sort of get-out-of-jail-free card. No matter what happens or what Palestinians leaders, extremists, or terrorists do, someone will shout "settlements!" and that buzzword is supposed to make it all okay and shift all the blame to Israel. The problem is that it's simply untrue. The issue of settlements absolutely does need to be addressed, but it is a secondary issue. It is not the basis for the conflict. The basis for the conflict is the ideological rejection of Israel's very right to exist. Once the Palestinians decide to accept the fact that Israel isn't going anywhere, then the rest of the issues (like the settlements) will fall into place and be solved.



Tequila
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29 Jul 2014, 12:54 am

trollcatman wrote:
AspE wrote:
That's the one thing I don't understand about Israel. They know they will have to get along with their neighbors eventually, why build settlements on disputed land? It's so wrong.


I think they've pretty much concluded that they will never get along with their neighbours. They burned their ships behind them.


All of Israel is "disputed land". Their neighbours mean to end Israel.



AspE
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29 Jul 2014, 1:35 am

They are building settlements on land that isn't Israel.