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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Dec 2014, 12:54 am

Yeah we know what gravity is but no one has ever really explained where it came from or why it exists and yes I know HOW it exists - between two objects with mass - so no need going into that. This doesn't explain why it exists or where it even comes from. It is still essentially a mysterious force.



DentArthurDent
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12 Dec 2014, 3:51 am

Our present best understanding is presented in Einstein's General Theory of Relativity in which objects with mass curve spacetime. thereby forcing objects to fall around them in what is known as a Geodesic. General Relativity not so much falsifies Newtonian understanding of Gravity rather it shows it to be an approximation.

I understand the principle enough for myself but not enough to explain it to you. If you are truly interested I would recommend "Why does E=MC2 and why should we care" By Brian Cox and Jeffrey Forshaw. But to answer your second question no it is not a mysterious force, einsteins equations have been shown to work, although Newton's are more generally used as they are easier to use and are a very very close approximation. The trouble with einstein's equations being they do not fit the Standard Model which links the other forces of nature


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12 Dec 2014, 2:13 pm

It seems to me that, in a universe where mass exists, gravity or something like it can't not exist.

The universe is, at its most basic, something with some stuff in it. So mathematically it can be described as a set U, and the stuff in the universe as the members of U.

Now you can assign various properties to the members of any set, this can be accomplished e.g. by taking the members of the set as being subsets of the set, with those properties assigned being members of the subsets. But for members of U to have a property comparable to mass - specifically that said members can be differentiated between on the basis of which masses more or less - then the set U must be at least partially ordered (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partially_ordered_set). And if U is (partially- or totally-) ordered, then there exists some binary relation on U which accomplishes said ordering.

Or in short, 'gravity' is the universe's ≤ operation, without which 'mass' is mathematically impossible.

I tend to see and think of everything as math. Consequently I think Adventure Time is the greatest cartoon ever, but I digress.


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12 Dec 2014, 3:44 pm

I suppose that one possible answer to your question would be two words: higgs boson.

That theoritical partical was supposedly just found at Lucerne. The higgs field pervades the universe. Matter plows through it - and gets its mass from interacting with the higgs field.

So...matter gets mass from space (which is pervaded by the higgs field). And matter in turn warps space - causing what we humans perceive as "gravity".



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12 Dec 2014, 5:11 pm

http://www.fnal.gov/pub/science/inquiring/questions/gravity_higgs.html


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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13 Dec 2014, 6:16 pm

Before we can nod our heads to that, we need to figure out where space-time comes from. Is it all just a matter of everything reacting with everything else and that results in what we are experiencing?



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13 Dec 2014, 6:53 pm

Ana before you continue I think you need to look into spacetime. Einstein's theories have been tested and proven correct through experiment and application. Spacetime exists, the trouble people have with it are A. understanding time as non uniform, since before Galileo we have known that space was non uniform, but always thought time was, we now know that it is not, which is the reason clocks on orbiting satellites run slower in relation to those on the ground and this difference must be factored in to allow GPS systems to work. Particles in a particle accelerator live longer in relation to stationary ones due to the fact they are moving close to the speed of massless particles. B, people find it hard to grasp because we are so used to thinking of time as uniform to any observer and spacetime requires thinking in 4 dimensions

Asking where spacetime come from is like asking where does three dimensional space come from. Space time is referred to as the fourth dimension because it joins three dimensional space with time forming the "fourth dimension". It doesn't come from anywhere (at least not in the sense I understand you to mean) it just is, space and time are inextricably linked. The effect we call gravity appears to be objects reacting with spacetime.

Just to be clear I should add that General relativity is the best model we have at the moment, almost certainly a new theory will come along we encapsulates this theory and expands upon it. In doing so the new theory will show General Relativity to be a close approximation much like it did to newtons Laws of Gravity


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LoveNotHate
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13 Dec 2014, 7:02 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Yeah we know what gravity is but no one has ever really explained where it came from or why it exists and yes I know HOW it exists - between two objects with mass - so no need going into that. This doesn't explain why it exists or where it even comes from. It is still essentially a mysterious force.


yes,

Some have suggested that the "gravity force" could be an explanation for why we see the physics of Quantum Mechanics only influence microscopic objects and not macroscopic objects (i.e., an electron may be much influenced by gravity than a human body).



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13 Dec 2014, 7:06 pm

I've often wondered the same thing, Ana. Gravity, Heat from the Sun, and all sorts of curious things.

Maybe the answer is in those Russian dolls. You know, the ones where each doll is inside the next, going down to the tiniest doll. We have some idea of the 'different' laws at the subatomic level, but what is it about that that causes elements to be attracted, or to give off photons or other phenomena? Could it be that, like the dolls, there is something at the sub-subatomic level, or the sub-sub-subatomic level, or could it be some sort of infinite progression? Maybe it's an infinite loop between subatomics and something bigger than our universe. (Just reaching with the imagination.. lol)

From what I've read, the behaviour of elements at subatomic levels can be quite peculiar, in ways that make sense mathematically. Cern has shown evidence for the maths, but we humans can't directly see subatomic events, which is fuel for the skeptics, and makes it a curious mystery for us lay folk.


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