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dktekno
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19 Jan 2007, 10:20 am

What one doesn't know, they don't care about.

Firstly, I will say I do not like North Korea or Saudi Arabia. They are evil and kill mentally and physically disabled people.

But if we look at the STRUCTURE of their society, they've got something right.

North Korea is a country with very litle food, they have no oil, they depend on import from China and South Korea and Japan, and they are very poor. Yet the people do not stand up and make a revolution. Why? They are brainwashed.

What they are taught is that they may find their their lack of food and entertainment etc. as somewhat "disappointing", but they don't know about the outside world. They only know that the outside world is their enemy.

They don't know what they should actually miss. This has a positive side effect: They are not angry. Anger is unhealthy, and keeping people happy with life as it is, is actually good for their health and their mind.

If the people knew about the outside world, they would be unhappy. And whilst they cannot do anything about this, they would just be unhappy for no reason. Because there is no reason for being unhappy about something you can't do anything about. It is not good for your mind and health. So stupidity may actually contribute to a better life.

Here is an example:

If I never knew that there are contagious bacteria and virus particles everywhere, I wouldn't be scared from eating food not handled by strictly followed hygiene rules. But because I know how the world actually is, and that I risk getting an infection, everytime I eat something, I get anxious.

So censorship can definetly save many people from unhappyness and unhealthy life, and let them live a life without fear.

So, what about propaganda? Is this good?

Well, let us look at Saudi Arabia:

In this country, they teach science along with religion. They people are always told that there is a God, and that God created us. They manage to educate people into advanced scientific affairs, while still making them belive in something that has no scientific basis. There are no scientific evidence for the existence of God.

But they still manage to keep even psychiatrists very religious. Yes, even muslim psychiatrists believe in God, because Islam is a very indoctrinating faith. It is so good to incorporate faith into science, so that they do not contradict with each other, but somehow go hand in hand.

And what does this faithdo? Well, even if the faith is proven wrong and proven as a big lie, you cannot deny its many benefits: Grief becomes easier. It becomes easier to accept someones death.

In the modern western society, it is very hard to actually keep real faith, because you cannot avoid people saying the opposite. So even if you say you do believe in God, you are still not 100 % sure. In Saudi Arabia, any talks about the inexistence of God is forbidden, and this causes a society where God is accepted.

I am not saying that God is a lie, but even if it IS a lie, it is a very good lie, that can be beneficial.

Propaganda and censorship isn't always evil. It can in fact help many people from suicide, unhappyness and let them stay in a healthy lifestyle.



Tequila
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19 Jan 2007, 10:30 am

No. I'd have to disagree with that. I'm a libertarian. Stifling anything (with the exception of inciting violence/murder against people) is morally questionable and ends up causing far more problems than it solves. Frankly, if you so fancy living in a repressive country I suggest you go and find one to live in. I would hope you never have cause to disagree with how their government runs things, though. :)



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19 Jan 2007, 10:43 am

I would not say that they are doing anything right. The denial of knowledge rarely is the right path as it denies the human freedom to make choices. I would rather know horrible things than be blind. Does a happier life really mean much if you are somebody else's pawn? I would say not. If the people of North Korea were angry then at the very least attempts to get things done could be made, at least Kim Jung Il would be hurt by this, at least they wouldn't be his slavish sheep.

If you knew your risk of dying from airborne germs and viruses then that fear would be less. To be honest, I know that these things exist and I don't really pay too much attention. I just try to avoid situations where it would be too dangerous to my health, which a person who knows little about this may not do but I recognize that I am unlikely to get ill from any of these things and do not worry for that reason.

In Saudi Arabia, religious extremism also exists in their society, leading them to extreme acts and destruction and their religious indoctrination comes at the cost of the freedom of certain people in their society. I will admit that propaganda and censorship aren't the greatest evils, but they are not things that I would desire. Actually, I might recommend a book called "Brave New World", it is about happiness and provides a strong case to most as to why it isn't the highest virtue.



dktekno
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19 Jan 2007, 11:20 am

Quote:
I would rather know horrible things than be blind.


What if you are not blind, but there were some things you are unable to see? That is, you don't need to be totally blind. You can still see, with the exception of horrible things.

Then you can see only good things.

Wouldn't this be nice?

Quote:
Does a happier life really mean much if you are somebody else's pawn? I would say not. If the people of North Korea were angry then at the very least attempts to get things done could be made, at least Kim Jung Il would be hurt by this, at least they wouldn't be his slavish sheep.


Exactly, and I also stated that I do not like North Korea or Saudi Arabia, because they use these means in a wrong way.

Its like medication. You need it for the right people, at the right time, in the right doses.

North Korea and Saudi Arabia produce this medication. The problem is not the medication itself, but the way it is administered.



Awesomelyglorious
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19 Jan 2007, 12:50 pm

dktekno wrote:
What if you are not blind, but there were some things you are unable to see? That is, you don't need to be totally blind. You can still see, with the exception of horrible things.

Then you can see only good things.

Wouldn't this be nice?
That would still be blindness in how I view it and no, I still would not like it. I would rather see the horrible things and know the truth than live seeing good things.

Quote:
Exactly, and I also stated that I do not like North Korea or Saudi Arabia, because they use these means in a wrong way.

Its like medication. You need it for the right people, at the right time, in the right doses.

North Korea and Saudi Arabia produce this medication. The problem is not the medication itself, but the way it is administered.

I don't think that such medication should be prescribed upon an entire populace without regard to individual desires except in cases of dire need. As well, government has never shown its ability to administer much else besides quack cures to promote its own interests so I don't think that I would want my government having the ability to use this "medicine" because such use can come so easily against my interests and easily towards theirs.



jimservo
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19 Jan 2007, 9:41 pm

dktekno wrote:
In the modern western society, it is very hard to actually keep real faith, because you cannot avoid people saying the opposite. So even if you say you do believe in God, you are still not 100 % sure. In Saudi Arabia, any talks about the inexistence of God is forbidden, and this causes a society where God is accepted. .


It also, in the case of Saudi Arabia, creates a incredibly intolerant society.



alex
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19 Jan 2007, 10:30 pm

ignorance is bliss


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ahayes
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19 Jan 2007, 10:39 pm

alex wrote:
ignorance is bliss


When anyone says that I like to tell them that they must be having an orgasm.



Bart21
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20 Jan 2007, 9:10 am

People in America and Europe are just as brainwashed.
They just get tricked into thinking they actually have some kind of control over what the goverment does through democracy.
In reality it's 90% decissions for own interests and another 10% to keep the votes coming in.
The typical politician wil say whatever he thinks can get him the most votes.

For instance in America.
Bush first let's his crony Rumsveld do terrible things in Iraq.
Than when people get pissed about it he ditches him to try and stop losing votes.
In the meanwhile that guy just did what he was told by Bush.
He'l end as a scapegoat but with a big fat salary and pension for doing the dirty work.
And most likely milions behind the screens.



peebo
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20 Jan 2007, 10:07 am

of course censorship is not good for the people. freedom of information is good for the people. if the people themselves choose not to know, then that is up to them as individuals. but as far as government limiting what information is available to the individual (which happens in virtually all societies to various degrees) then obviously this is a bad thing.

why do so many people seem to believe that individuals are not capable of being responsible and governing there own existence? is it simply an ingrained thought pattern resulting from living under oppressive and restrictive systems of government and law?


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Corvus
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20 Jan 2007, 11:30 am

Quote:
why do so many people seem to believe that individuals are not capable of being responsible and governing there own existence? is it simply an ingrained thought pattern resulting from living under oppressive and restrictive systems of government and law?


Possibly - People have become weak as a result. Removing a persons "choice" hurts them. They become stupid since they cannot ever be wrong



Musik
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20 Jan 2007, 3:47 pm

There is no good censorship, curse words, sex, hate, violence, you're going to learn about these things at some point. Most censorship is hypocritical anyways, Catcher in the Rye has been a banned and nearly banned book for slight references to underage sex, mild swearing, and the use of the word F_ck on a couple pages while Houlden was washing the word off of the Museum of Natural History in New York City, while that book has been banned in some libraries Gone With the Wind has never been even though it has many very racist passages from main characters.

MTV even censored the Weezer song "We are all on drugs", they edited the video so that it was "We are all in love" thereby destroying the meaning of the song and making the video not make sense in relation to the lyrics.



Cyanide
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22 Jan 2007, 3:11 am

Though I'm not a Libertarian, I think all mandatory censorship should be banned. Though I do think that people should be able to block out certain things, if they so choose to do so.



Marrshu
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22 Jan 2007, 5:43 am

Censorship can and does block out the truth. I believe that knowing the truth is a requirement for all, thus I do not support Censorship in any way possible.

As an artist, I am also opposed to censorship on this reason too. If one cannot appreciate art for what it is, they do not deserve them at all.



desert_rat
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22 Jan 2007, 10:00 pm

The only good censorship is what you decide. It should be done by your personal taste and not by some government commision. For example, if you don't want to watch something, then don't, but don't let others stop someone from seeing or hearing what they want( so long as said thing doesn't harm others in the process of making, aka rape porn).


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22 Jan 2007, 10:04 pm

Yes, we need to form as one mind and conquer the world.