_________________ "You have a responsibility to consider all sides of a problem and a responsibility to make a judgment and a responsibility to care for all involved." --Ian Danskin
Joined: 5 May 2009 Age: 58 Gender: Female Posts: 6,450 Location: x
23 Feb 2015, 5:38 pm
If this passes he'll get some unintended consequences. I am guessing he is unaware that girls/women who were born that way (chromosomally female? I dunno, there must be a term for this) pretty often go into the boys/mens room. Does he know he's about to criminalize them? Is he aware they exist?
Girls! Have any of You ever used the Mens Restroom? Last weekend We went to a concert and the line for the Ladies room was a mile long, and a bunch of Us Girls went in the Mens room. It got weird when Men started coming in there LOL!
Quote:
PS there's a whole section of U tube devoted to girls in mens room
Omigod there really is.
I have heard that part of the controversy is the fear/claim that men will cross dress in a bid to go into the women's room and assault. This is a possibility. But it's a possibility that is unaffected by this law since the crime would be assault and men who would do that are going to be utterly uncaring that they had broken the lesser law of using the wrong bathroom.
Anyway, I doubt it will pass. If it starts to gain traction, the legion (yes, legion) of women who use the men's bathroom to avoid the long lines in their own won't stand for it.
Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 48,516 Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
23 Feb 2015, 9:57 pm
This is just another example of the right attempting to make life unlivable for what they see as undesirable minorities, and it's below contempt. Decades ago, they tried to criminalize blacks from drinking from fountains, or relieving themselves in restroom designated for whites. Today, the LGBT community has replaced blacks in the minds of conservatives.
_________________ -Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Joined: 9 Feb 2012 Gender: Female Posts: 5,812 Location: California Bay Area
23 Feb 2015, 10:21 pm
Good. I don't want males in the women's restroom, regardless of their "gender." It's bad enough when mothers bring their sons into the women's room and let them pee on the damned seats and take up stalls while womyn are waiting. Public bathrooms aren't divided by "gender" or "gender identity;" they are divided by sex, and I'm tired of the trans lobby, who are always trying to "educate" people that sex and gender aren't the same thing, being hypocrites about their own ideology and trying to get their "gender identities" legally treated as sex. If sex isn't "gender identity," then "gender identity" doesn't apply to the use of sex-segregated bathrooms, or sex-segregated anything for that matter. Public restrooms don't exist to validate anyone's subjective identity.
Joined: 9 Feb 2012 Gender: Female Posts: 5,812 Location: California Bay Area
23 Feb 2015, 10:34 pm
Janissy wrote:
I have heard that part of the controversy is the fear/claim that men will cross dress in a bid to go into the women's room and assault. This is a possibility. But it's a possibility that is unaffected by this law since the crime would be assault and men who would do that are going to be utterly uncaring that they had broken the lesser law of using the wrong bathroom.
The possibility is not unaffected by this law if this law makes it easier for them to go in unnoticed or unchallenged in the first place! They have to have the opportunity to get into the restroom before they can assault anyone in there. Jesus Christ.
Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 48,516 Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
23 Feb 2015, 11:22 pm
starkid wrote:
Good. I don't want males in the women's restroom, regardless of their "gender." It's bad enough when mothers bring their sons into the women's room and let them pee on the damned seats and take up stalls while womyn are waiting. Public bathrooms aren't divided by "gender" or "gender identity;" they are divided by sex, and I'm tired of the trans lobby, who are always trying to "educate" people that sex and gender aren't the same thing, being hypocrites about their own ideology and trying to get their "gender identities" legally treated as sex. If sex isn't "gender identity," then "gender identity" doesn't apply to the use of sex-segregated bathrooms, or sex-segregated anything for that matter. Public restrooms don't exist to validate anyone's subjective identity.
It's a matter of which sex an individual associates himself/herself with. My wife and I have a friend who is a transgender woman, and she identifies entirely as a woman. She is not going to assault women in the ladies room, and she clearly feels uncomfortable in the men's room. Respect must be paid to such individuals as my friend.
_________________ -Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Sex is not gender and gender is not sex. I believe girls and women deserve sex-based protections until such time as we are not victims of assault and rape in disproportion to males.
I support the idea of 'gender neutral' restrooms and do not believe that transgender people are any more prone to violence against women than anybody else is, but I don't believe that anybody's 'identity' should trump protection for young girls and women.
I don't believe the majority of pre-op transwomen are going to traipse into women's change rooms and demand little girls recognise their 'lady dicks' as female ala Colleen Francis, but I do believe that the trans lobby is railroading girls and women specifically.
I don't think throwing one oppressed group under the bus to liberate another oppressed group is very progressive. I think there must be some other way to achieve trans liberation and acceptance. I also wonder what ramifications this sort of legislation will have on butch lesbians who are often misgendered. Are they going to be arrested for going in the women's room? Are they going to have to prove they are female and how will they do that? How will they enforce this kind of legislation?
I am a single mum with a 12 year old son. He is too old now to go in the women's change room with me, and is not at the stage where either of us feel comfortable with him going into a men's change room without someone with him. We go into the disabled or family change rooms. Sometimes we have to wait. That's ok with me. I don't make a big deal out of it because I expect special treatment for us, I respect the need for girls and women to have privacy in areas where they will be undressed and vulnerable.
Joined: 15 Nov 2014 Age: 31 Gender: Male Posts: 320 Location: British Columbia
24 Feb 2015, 12:13 am
But of course this law is to protect females! What about having one washroom that is not segregated by sex. If not I want a white only bathrooms again since I might be raped by a black guy!
There has to be a solution that allows sex based protections for women and protections for transfolk. It is no solution for transwomen to be forced to use male restrooms (subjecting themselves to the very real possibility of male violence) or criminalise them for using female restrooms.
I don't expect the nt world to shift everything to accommodate autistics, though, and I also resent them demanding we pass as nt because we are a minority. I think it's possible to correlate this to the issues transfolk face in the world and it will take a lot of calm, rational, and compassionate communication to really move forward as a society on this issue. It seems all the solutions and demands of 'either side' tend to be too black and white.
I have gone in the men's bathroom by accident, just absent mindedly walked in and then thought it looked funky, felt really embarrassed by my mistake and left as fast as I could. I never have liked the vibe in there. It's very different from the vibe in the women's restroom. Although it's hard to believe, yes, these restrooms have vibes based on what sex they cater to.
Joined: 5 Aug 2014 Age: 31 Gender: Male Posts: 82 Location: Syracuse, NY
24 Feb 2015, 5:06 am
Being that my girlfriend is transgendered, we have run into this issue. Either I go into the men's restroom with her as a reassurance and protection, or we find a gender-neutral stall. What many of you on the trans-side of this discussion are forgetting is the plethora of anti-transsexual violence in recent history.
The reason something like this hurts the transgendered is less legal and more to do with so-called 'transphobia'. Similar to homophobia, several people have committed murders, but were able to get away with it due to a real legal loophole called 'trans-induced temporary insanity'.
Forcing trans-people to use certain facilities increase the chances of this happening. Of course, adding a third stall for them would be most ideal, but far too many people with the power to make that change are either ignorant of the issue, or dead-set in their belief that sex is the same as gender.
What I don't understand is, transgendered women look like women so if one of them hurries into the lady's restroom and into a stall, who is going to know because once they are in they shut the door, have privacy. All they need to do is wash their hands on the way out otherwise they will only be seen a few seconds on the way in unless there's a line so who would know the difference?