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AspieOtaku
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23 Feb 2015, 12:41 pm

Imagine a society where both genders are completely separated relationships are illegal and if caught both are sentenced to life in prison? All reproduction is made by artificial means for both parties and at birth are assigned to their society.


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23 Feb 2015, 2:26 pm

No, because there are people with Gender Dysphoria who'd rather be around people of the opposite sex. It would also be disastrous due to the fact that men and women need each other in their lives to have a proper relationship. It takes a man and a woman to make a child. If I had to live in a world like that, I'd be on the edge of suicide. I enjoy the company of men and as a transman, I couldn't handle being surrounded by just women 24/7.


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23 Feb 2015, 2:59 pm

What would gender dysphoria even mean, for someone raised only among one gender with no knowledge of the other? A vague yet acute feeling of things not being right, but lacking the ability to actually explain it?

If all reproduction was done artificially, why would men and women even meet (in this dystopia described in the OP)?



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23 Feb 2015, 3:47 pm

Magneto wrote:
What would gender dysphoria even mean, for someone raised only among one gender with no knowledge of the other? A vague yet acute feeling of things not being right, but lacking the ability to actually explain it?

If all reproduction was done artificially, why would men and women even meet (in this dystopia described in the OP)?


Gender Dysphoria is Gender Identity Disorder. It's a strong dislike of the gender that you were born. You have an intense feeling on the inside that you're the opposite sex. You can't stand anything that has to do with your assigned gender. You know deep down that you're the opposite gender of the gender that you were assigned at birth. I feel that I'm a man trapped in a female body just dying to get out. Any thing feminine that I see makes me feel very uneasy - unless it's a frilly shirt like the ones that The Kinks wore in the 60s. I feel my skin crawl every time someone calls me Miss or Lady. I'd rather walk around my area looking like a young Mick Avory than preen and doll myself up for society (with the exception of a frilly shirt worn under a red jacket, because that makes me look even more like Mick). A person with Gender Dysphoria or Gender Identity Disorder always feels a constant disquiet about their assigned gender that knaws at them on the inside, all hours of the waking day and that's what it is. There's nothing vague about gender dysphoria. Saying things like "Sucks to be you, wouldn't want to know you!" only makes things worse for people with such gender issues. I choose to live the life of a man and I wish to be treated as a man. I've also picked Male to define my gender here on WP, due to the fact that there's only two options. I knew this about myself since I was 4.


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Magneto
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23 Feb 2015, 4:42 pm

I *know* what gender dysphoria is like. What I'm wondering is:

Quote:
What would gender dysphoria even mean, for someone raised only among one gender with no knowledge of the other?

If I'd never come into contact with other girls, I would never be able to hold the concept of [being a girl despite male body] in my mind, because I would not hold the concept [girl] in my mind. But the dysphoria would, probably, still exist; I would just lack the ability to describe it. Hence, it would be vague, as all things are before they are defined.

See: newspeak.



CockneyRebel
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23 Feb 2015, 5:52 pm

Magneto wrote:
I *know* what gender dysphoria is like. What I'm wondering is:
Quote:
What would gender dysphoria even mean, for someone raised only among one gender with no knowledge of the other?

If I'd never come into contact with other girls, I would never be able to hold the concept of [being a girl despite male body] in my mind, because I would not hold the concept [girl] in my mind. But the dysphoria would, probably, still exist; I would just lack the ability to describe it. Hence, it would be vague, as all things are before they are defined.

See: newspeak.


I'm really not in the mood to explain this, nor am I able. I'd like to be able to post without being asked these types of questions. I come here to get away from the questions that people throw at me in the real world. I'm tired of having to explain myself to people. I can't elaborate for the life of me, and I feel like I'm being judged.


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23 Feb 2015, 11:49 pm

vandread is about something like this. two future colonies, one all men, the other all women. who are at war with each other. hundreds of years of propaganda has lead to both sides to think the others as monsters that they can't touch without possible death.



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24 Feb 2015, 5:52 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
Magneto wrote:
I *know* what gender dysphoria is like. What I'm wondering is:
Quote:
What would gender dysphoria even mean, for someone raised only among one gender with no knowledge of the other?

If I'd never come into contact with other girls, I would never be able to hold the concept of [being a girl despite male body] in my mind, because I would not hold the concept [girl] in my mind. But the dysphoria would, probably, still exist; I would just lack the ability to describe it. Hence, it would be vague, as all things are before they are defined.

See: newspeak.


I'm really not in the mood to explain this, nor am I able. I'd like to be able to post without being asked these types of questions. I come here to get away from the questions that people throw at me in the real world. I'm tired of having to explain myself to people. I can't elaborate for the life of me, and I feel like I'm being judged.

If you get into the habbit of reading posts before replying to them, then you won't have such a problem.



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24 Feb 2015, 6:02 am

CockneyRebel wrote:
I'm really not in the mood to explain this, nor am I able. I'd like to be able to post without being asked these types of questions. I come here to get away from the questions that people throw at me in the real world. I'm tired of having to explain myself to people. I can't elaborate for the life of me, and I feel like I'm being judged.


I get it. I'm just learning that I don't actually owe anybody an explanation in places like this. It's perfectly ok for you to not allow people to tokenise you or make you into the person who must explain either gender dysphoric or autistic (or anything else about you that makes you who you are).

I'm still learning how to build and respect my own boundaries around this issue, how to scroll past people I don't want to engage with online, and how to look after myself in general in this regard. I feel 'rude' when I don't respond to people who are addressing me, but I have also come to the realisation that much of what people ask is either based on tokenism (oh look, an autistic in real life!) or their own lack of will to educate themselves. There is plenty online about gender dysphoria and GID for people who want to learn.

You're cool, don't sweat them. If they can't respect your boundaries that's their problem, not yours. ;)



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24 Feb 2015, 8:13 am

AspieOtaku wrote:
Imagine a society where both genders are completely separated relationships are illegal and if caught both are sentenced to life in prison? All reproduction is made by artificial means for both parties and at birth are assigned to their society.


Okay. So I am sitting here imagining it.

So what?

Where are you going with this?

Why would the state do this?
Nevermind-let me fill in the blanks for you with my own elaboration.

Okay presumably the "state" in this dystopian future you're talking about wants to control human reproduction (kinda like farmers wanna control the reproduction of their livestock). THAT would make for a rather interesting sci fi drama.

They COULD go the segregation route (you're talking about outdoing even Saudi Arabia in gender apartheid).

But in this high tech future what this state might actually do would be to sterilize everyone when theyre young (but first take samples of your gametes and store them in a bank for latter possible use), and then just let everyone mingle as normal. In fact there might even less inhibition about fraternizing with the opposite sex than now because no one could get pregnant (in or out of wedlock)even illegally.

Then as you grow up the state might decide whether they want to reproduce or not- and match your gametes with those of an appropriate test tube "mate". And thats how new badies are concieved. How they are then raised- you will have to explain to us.



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24 Feb 2015, 9:11 am

I imagine a diabolical purpose behind such a society - perhaps for breeding the perfect warrior ... or the perfect meal! Either way, some higher authority would have to be in total control.


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Magneto
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24 Feb 2015, 9:43 am

ominous wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I'm really not in the mood to explain this, nor am I able. I'd like to be able to post without being asked these types of questions. I come here to get away from the questions that people throw at me in the real world. I'm tired of having to explain myself to people. I can't elaborate for the life of me, and I feel like I'm being judged.


I get it. I'm just learning that I don't actually owe anybody an explanation in places like this. It's perfectly ok for you to not allow people to tokenise you or make you into the person who must explain either gender dysphoric or autistic (or anything else about you that makes you who you are).

I'm still learning how to build and respect my own boundaries around this issue, how to scroll past people I don't want to engage with online, and how to look after myself in general in this regard. I feel 'rude' when I don't respond to people who are addressing me, but I have also come to the realisation that much of what people ask is either based on tokenism (oh look, an autistic in real life!) or their own lack of will to educate themselves. There is plenty online about gender dysphoria and GID for people who want to learn.

You're cool, don't sweat them. If they can't respect your boundaries that's their problem, not yours. ;)

WTF? So *I'm* being rude now, for vocalising a simple question about what it would mean to have gender dysphoria in a world where there is only one gender, and then being surprised when CockneyRebel goes off on a tangent?



CockneyRebel
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24 Feb 2015, 11:28 am

Magneto wrote:
ominous wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I'm really not in the mood to explain this, nor am I able. I'd like to be able to post without being asked these types of questions. I come here to get away from the questions that people throw at me in the real world. I'm tired of having to explain myself to people. I can't elaborate for the life of me, and I feel like I'm being judged.


I get it. I'm just learning that I don't actually owe anybody an explanation in places like this. It's perfectly ok for you to not allow people to tokenise you or make you into the person who must explain either gender dysphoric or autistic (or anything else about you that makes you who you are).

I'm still learning how to build and respect my own boundaries around this issue, how to scroll past people I don't want to engage with online, and how to look after myself in general in this regard. I feel 'rude' when I don't respond to people who are addressing me, but I have also come to the realisation that much of what people ask is either based on tokenism (oh look, an autistic in real life!) or their own lack of will to educate themselves. There is plenty online about gender dysphoria and GID for people who want to learn.

You're cool, don't sweat them. If they can't respect your boundaries that's their problem, not yours. ;)

WTF? So *I'm* being rude now, for vocalising a simple question about what it would mean to have gender dysphoria in a world where there is only one gender, and then being surprised when CockneyRebel goes off on a tangent?


Gender is a very hot topic for me. Of course I'm going to go on a tangent. I have a feeling that you won't accept my apology, but I'm going to apologize anyways. I apologize for being such a sensitive person.


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CockneyRebel
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24 Feb 2015, 11:31 am

I'll try to be more like Ray Davies in the future.


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24 Feb 2015, 11:32 am

It's a major issue for me, as well...

Anyway, I'll voice my question again, in case anyone wants to try and throw in some suggestions - what would it mean to be gender dysphoric, if you only knew of one gender (the one you're assigned to at birth)?



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24 Feb 2015, 11:50 am

Magneto wrote:
It's a major issue for me, as well...

Anyway, I'll voice my question again, in case anyone wants to try and throw in some suggestions - what would it mean to be gender dysphoric, if you only knew of one gender (the one you're assigned to at birth)?


About the same thing that it meant to be "Level 1 ASD" back in the 80s, surrounded by "normal" people, with no real words to describe what you are seeing and thinking and feeling.

Unable to say what is "wrong," really even to yourself, but still stuck with the constant pervasive sense that "something isn't right."

"Newspeak" is a flawed concept. Discontent is harder to spread and organize a movement around (and easier to quash) without words to verbalize it, but it will still exist. Eventually, neologisms to describe it will come into existence.

So it was explained to me in Linguistics 101 anyway... And it makes sense. I certainly did not stop being a discontented young Aspie, or end the search to understand The Thing That Had No Name, simply because the words to describe and identify it didn't become available to me until the mid-to-late-1990s.

When I was a Level 1 ASD zygote, Lorna Wing et al were creating a disorder to describe it, because there were other struggling people searching for a way to understand and deal with The Thing That Had No Name.

Gender dysphoria would continue to exist in the same way.

And sooner or later, someone would, for whatever reason, slip the strictures and find out that the other half existed and there were other ways. And all hell would break loose.


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