Why do lots of people think that people choose to be gay?

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It's obvious to people that people don't choose to be black, white, asian or have blond hair. Why is it not so obvious to people that people don't choose to be gay? Is it because gayness is not a visible thing? You can't look at someone and immediately know that they are gay.

No. It's because of religious dogma.

There are a few different versions.

firstly, the LUG (Lesbian Until Graduation) phenom is a real thing. Maybe not a common thing, but real.

I have known too many avowed lesbians who deny viciously that their history of sexual abuse at the hands of male authority figures has nothing to do with their romantic preference to not come to the conclusion that some lesbians are lesbian by default.

This is not to suggest that all or most lesbians chose or were driven to it. But it is, in my view, an undeniable segment of that population.

As i pointed out in the other thread, there is also a pattern of behavior where people who have been sexually abused during their formative years have an unfortunate, tragic tendency to either emulate the behavior of their abuser, or approach most if not all relationships the way their relationship with their abuser worked. We see this all the time -- the most seductive, sexually aggressive females are often the ones that were abused. Drew Pinsky can spot them two sentences into a conversation with alarming accuracy, as i imagine most mental health professionals can. The psychological mechanisms are complex, and heartbreaking, and I'm not about to discuss them here. But child sexual abuse changes the child, and this affects both males and females.

Most of the gay men i know have related their struggle with trying not to be gay. Most of them dated women at some point. Some married and even fathered children, but always knew, deep down, who they were.

Some religious groups, particularly the mormons, argue that this is all that they are asking from gay people - to just live a lie, and deny themselves fulfillment, for their entire lives.

And in that sense, they argue that homosexual behavior is a choice, and thus homosexuality is a choice. And this is the worst, most destructive kind of bigotry.

The people who say homosexuality is a choice are the same generally who believe the Bible to be without error, and so can't conceive that what was written in Leviticus was wrong.

People who believe that homosexuality is a choice are not only idiots, but are also the types that believe contradictions are not real. However, people are entitled to believe what they want to believe.

I’d guess it goes along these lines:

• I haven’t chosen to be gay.
• I’m not gay.
--------------------------------------
Therefore, those who are gay must have chosen so, q.e.d.

When has a simple logical fallacy stopped anyone from believing what they want to?

That is indeed a choice, for everyone. Everyone can choose to deny themself fulfillment for their entire life.

The prohibitions in Leviticus come from a variety of causes.

The prohibitions on shellfish and pork are about norovirus and trichinosis and/or other parasites. We've gotten a lot better at avoiding those issues, so people who aren't observant jews don't really care anymore. And speaking of keeping kosher, the prohibition on commingling dairy and meat is 100% about outlawing a competing faith that had a ritual involving the preparation of veal in the milk of it's mother.

The rules relating to coupling, marriage, etc in the bible in general seem to have to do with the continuance of a genetic line in an era where mortality rates were staggering compared to the modern world. If you expected to have descendants, rules had to be followed. Levirate marriage is a good example.

I contend, and have argued frequently, that the tale of Onan has nothing at all to do with masturbation and everything to do with using your brother's widow for sexual gratification. "onanism" is coitus interruptus. "seed on the ground" makes that clear. In the Torah, he isn't struck down by God, he's struck down by his in-laws. And he deserved it. It's notable that prostitution doesn't seem to be regarded as much of a sin in that story. Certainly not as bad as disrespecting your duties as a surviving brother-in-law by screwing your brother's widow but not giving her any children.

As an atheist, while i accept the value of the allegory and example in scripture, I am pretty sure that modern man can do better.

There are a variety of people who hold this view, and their holding these views have been encouraged by a variety of influences. Things ranging from various religious ideologies and cultural traditions which hold the idea of heterosexuality as the only inherently engrained sexuality to queer theorists (who believe that sexuality is socially constructed) and various modernist and post-modernist philosophies (whose anti-realist and anti-rationalist assumptions lead them to deny the existence of sexual orientation as part of a denial of essence, nature, and rational order).

People who believe that do it for one of two reasons.

1. They have heard it all their lives from people

2. They made a choice to live a straight life after having urges toward the other direction, or at least bi-curious.

Most people who say its a choice, made one themselves. Thats probably the biggest reason why.

Maybe it's actually referring to a bi-sexual person that pretends to be completely gay/straight, just cause they prefer that particular gender. I suspect that's the case with many of them.

It's ridiculous, IMO!

Why would ANYBODY purposely subject themselves to being beaten, raped, mocked, or killed?

Pretty sure both my parents are asexual, so I suspect a genetic component to my own orientation.

As for people thinking being gay is a "choice," it depends on what they mean by "choice."

I don't know of many bisexual people who 'pretend' to be completely gay or straight...and I know quite a few bisexual people. Some do have more of a preference for one gender over the other though but its not like some hidden thing they try and hide. I suspect the pretending thing is the case with far less of them than you'd assume.

I don't get it to they choose to be biologically straight?


Sure someone could be indoctrinated to believe it is a choice and that they are making the wrong one and must fix them-self and make the right 'choice'...like camps I've heard about that homosexual kids have been sent to, for treatment to be made straight, granted many such places have been shut down ect because of all the abuse and psychological damage...but granted there are victims of these 'treatments' who really feel they where made straight/had the gay beaten out of them more or less these are not happy people....and they still aren't biologically straight.

If they were pretending to be straight or gay then you wouldn't know that they were bisexual, so you can't say either way whether or not you know somebody who is bi and just pretending to go to one side or the other. Unless they tell you what they are doing, you don't know. If they are trying to pass as either, they won't tell you. All you can say for sure is that none of your straight or gay friends has told you they are secretly bisexual.

Never meet anyone, gay or straight, who claimed that they choose to be whichever way they are. Never heard, nor read, of such a person either. So you're saying that "the biggest reason" to believe it is the testimony of nonexistent people?