Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Atheism and autism

Page 1 of 12 [ 184 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

pawelk1986
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Apr 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,901
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

19 Jul 2015, 7:54 am

I wonder why every person presupposes that every autistic, whether in the form of classic autism or highly functional like Asperger's syndrome, there must be an atheist. Many think that we are like Vulcans from the Start Trek :-)
Very rational and above all atheists that we are ungodly :(



sly279
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 16,181
Location: US

19 Jul 2015, 2:10 pm

based on this forum, it seems most of them are, probably why people assume all of us are. not only that quite a bunch of them are very anti religion atheists. i won't likely read this thread again because it'll become an anti religion thread.



0_equals_true
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,038
Location: London

19 Jul 2015, 2:27 pm

Although many of us are, I suspect it more religious people using autism as a scapegoat for what they consider subversive. In fact I have seen several example of religious people saying as much.



Skibz888
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 965
Location: Orange County, CA

19 Jul 2015, 2:40 pm

Outside of culture and ethnicity, belief systems are not predisposed to any particular demographic, especially not something as arbitrary as neurodevelopmental disorders. There's no connection between autism and religious beliefs (or lack thereof), no more so than you can say that people with brown hair are more likely to be Buddhists.



pcuser
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2014
Age: 74
Gender: Male
Posts: 913

19 Jul 2015, 2:47 pm

sly279 wrote:
based on this forum, it seems most of them are, probably why people assume all of us are. not only that quite a bunch of them are very anti religion atheists. i won't likely read this thread again because it'll become an anti religion thread.

You aren't anti religion simply because you are unconvinced by a mythology...



Skibz888
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 965
Location: Orange County, CA

19 Jul 2015, 2:51 pm

pcuser wrote:
sly279 wrote:
based on this forum, it seems most of them are, probably why people assume all of us are. not only that quite a bunch of them are very anti religion atheists. i won't likely read this thread again because it'll become an anti religion thread.

You aren't anti religion simply because you are unconvinced by a mythology...


Most modern atheism is largely a reaction against the cultural aspects of organized religion, which is typically what they (and many deists and theists, for that matter) find far more problematic than actual theology.



Janissy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 May 2009
Age: 58
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,450
Location: x

19 Jul 2015, 3:20 pm

sly279 wrote:
based on this forum, it seems most of them are, probably why people assume all of us are. not only that quite a bunch of them are very anti religion atheists. i won't likely read this thread again because it'll become an anti religion thread.


The research on atheism and autism was literally based on this forum.

http://csjarchive.cogsci.rpi.edu/proceedings/2011/papers/0782/paper0782.pdf

Quote:
Persons with autistic spectrum disorder were much more likely than
those in our neurotypical comparison group to identify as
atheist or agnostic, and, if religious, were more likely to
construct their own religious belief system.


Which people are they specifically talking about?....PPR!!
Quote:
On each of these two forums, the authors and research
assistants read through the forums for discussions about
religion. On wrongplanet the forum that was analyzed was
titled Religion/Philosophy/Politics; on golivewire the one
analyzed was titled Religion and Philosophy


golivewire was their NT comparison forum.

I think it's interesting they noted "if religious, were more likely to construct their own religious belief systems". There are several posters here who have done just exactly that.



pcuser
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2014
Age: 74
Gender: Male
Posts: 913

19 Jul 2015, 3:55 pm

Skibz888 wrote:
pcuser wrote:
sly279 wrote:
based on this forum, it seems most of them are, probably why people assume all of us are. not only that quite a bunch of them are very anti religion atheists. i won't likely read this thread again because it'll become an anti religion thread.

You aren't anti religion simply because you are unconvinced by a mythology...


Most modern atheism is largely a reaction against the cultural aspects of organized religion, which is typically what they (and many deists and theists, for that matter) find far more problematic than actual theology.

Exactly, we atheists and free thinkers are pushing back against the hard and soft bigotry of religion. Religion as an organization is used to control people. This is repugnant and needs to be stopped. When we push back, we are called intolerant and are accused of oppression against religion. If the religious people of the world would simply stop trying to impose their beliefs into laws that constrain our freedoms, most of it would simply go away. Religious people would go on being religious and the rest of us would simply live our lives. We atheists have no particular desire to convert people. Though that's not usually possible anyway. We wouldn't care one way or the other...



Skibz888
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 965
Location: Orange County, CA

19 Jul 2015, 4:01 pm

pcuser wrote:
Exactly, we atheists and free thinkers are pushing back against the hard and soft bigotry of religion. Religion as an organization is used to control people. This is repugnant and needs to be stopped. When we push back, we are called intolerant and are accused of oppression against religion. If the religious people of the world would simply stop trying to impose their beliefs into laws that constrain our freedoms, most of it would simply go away. Religious people would go on being religious and the rest of us would simply live our lives. We atheists have no particular desire to convert people. Though that's not usually possible anyway. We wouldn't care one way or the other...


I'm 100% theist and, as long as the American right continues to hijack the name of Christianity to serve their own political agenda bent on shaping this country into a twisted dystopian theocracy, I will 100% agree with you.



Campin_Cat
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2014
Age: 63
Gender: Female
Posts: 25,953
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, U.S.A.

19 Jul 2015, 7:18 pm

Skibz888 wrote:
Most modern atheism is largely a reaction against the cultural aspects of organized religion, which is typically what they (and many deists and theists, for that matter) find far more problematic than actual theology.

I agree, with that.

I also think, sometimes, that it seems like some people are atheists because they feel like, if there was a God, He wouldn't let them suffer, so much.

I also think there are a group of people who think, in regard to God and Science, that it has to be, either / or. I feel, MAYBE, that SOME scientists are egotistically believing that it could ONLY be science----because they want to feel like they've got / WILL get, the answers----and, that it HAS TO BE something "tangible".




_________________
White female; age 59; diagnosed Aspie.
I use caps for emphasis----I'm NOT angry or shouting. I use caps like others use italics, underline, or bold.
"What we know is a drop; what we don't know, is an ocean." (Sir Isaac Newton)


pcuser
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2014
Age: 74
Gender: Male
Posts: 913

19 Jul 2015, 7:35 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Skibz888 wrote:
Most modern atheism is largely a reaction against the cultural aspects of organized religion, which is typically what they (and many deists and theists, for that matter) find far more problematic than actual theology.

I agree, with that.

I also think, sometimes, that it seems like some people are atheists because they feel like, if there was a God, He wouldn't let them suffer, so much.

I also think there are a group of people who think, in regard to God and Science, that it has to be, either / or. I feel, MAYBE, that SOME scientists are egotistically believing that it could ONLY be science----because they want to feel like they've got / WILL get, the answers----and, that it HAS TO BE something "tangible".

Most scientist don't care what the understanding of nature and reality is. They care about understanding that nature and reality, wherever it takes them. They mostly are atheists for the same reason they are scientist. They look at all the evidence and choose the most likely scenario that fits that evidence. Since there is no evidence of God, they treat it the same way.



Skibz888
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 965
Location: Orange County, CA

19 Jul 2015, 8:11 pm

pcuser wrote:
Most scientist don't care what the understanding of nature and reality is. They care about understanding that nature and reality, wherever it takes them. They mostly are atheists for the same reason they are scientist. They look at all the evidence and choose the most likely scenario that fits that evidence. Since there is no evidence of God, they treat it the same way.


It seems most scientists are actually agnostic; I know Neil Degrasse Tyson has stated several times he dislikes being called an atheist, while Carl Sagan said he found no persuasive evidence in favor of either theism or atheism. While there are plenty of scientists both religious and atheist, agnosticism seems to be the norm.



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

19 Jul 2015, 10:00 pm

Skibz888 wrote:
It seems most scientists are actually agnostic; I know Neil Degrasse Tyson has stated several times he dislikes being called an atheist, while Carl Sagan said he found no persuasive evidence in favor of either theism or atheism. While there are plenty of scientists both religious and atheist, agnosticism seems to be the norm.


I find this hard to believe, but if I am incorrect, I want to know about it.
Can you supply sources/statistics which support your assertion?



Pepe
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 26,635
Location: Australia

19 Jul 2015, 10:18 pm

pawelk1986 wrote:
I wonder why every person presupposes that every autistic, whether in the form of classic autism or highly functional like Asperger's syndrome, there must be an atheist. Many think that we are like Vulcans from the Start Trek :-)
Very rational and above all atheists that we are ungodly :(


Firstly, not everyone does... ;)

Many/some think we are like Spock because many on the spectrum are more comfortable with being intellectual/logical than emotional...

Religion is an emotion based philosophy which focuses on faith, emotional comforting and a belief in an intrinsic meaning of life...
I would think most scientists and atheists are more interested in intellectualising/reasoning and objectively observing/testing...

There is also speculation that the lack of "Theory of mind" has something to do with a lesser affinity with theism...



blauSamstag
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Apr 2011
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,026

20 Jul 2015, 2:43 am

Skibz888 wrote:
Outside of culture and ethnicity, belief systems are not predisposed to any particular demographic, especially not something as arbitrary as neurodevelopmental disorders. There's no connection between autism and religious beliefs (or lack thereof), no more so than you can say that people with brown hair are more likely to be Buddhists.


But people with black hair are more likely to be Buddhists.



Skibz888
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Nov 2014
Gender: Male
Posts: 965
Location: Orange County, CA

20 Jul 2015, 3:37 am

Pepe wrote:
Skibz888 wrote:
It seems most scientists are actually agnostic; I know Neil Degrasse Tyson has stated several times he dislikes being called an atheist, while Carl Sagan said he found no persuasive evidence in favor of either theism or atheism. While there are plenty of scientists both religious and atheist, agnosticism seems to be the norm.


I find this hard to believe, but if I am incorrect, I want to know about it.
Can you supply sources/statistics which support your assertion?


I'm not saying this from an authoritative stance. This is merely from recognizing that most of the better-known scientists and scientific celebrities have identified as agnostic,: Albert Einstein, Carl Sagan, Bill Nye, Neil Degrasse Tyson, David Attenborough, even Charles Darwin all dismissed the term "atheism" in favor of "agnostic". However, I do know that Stephen Hawking, Brian Cox and, of course, Richard Dawkins identify as atheists, though Cox has repeatedly stated that he believes science and religion are compatible, as does Brian Higgs, and conversely, I know that NIH director Francis Collins and Nobel prize winners Gerhard Ertl and William Daniel Phillips are all devout Christians.

That's all I know off the top of my head. It's not an area of my expertise. If I go to Google, it shows me lists of many agnostic scientists, atheist scientists and religious scientists...a Pew Research Center poll from 2009 surmises about 51%/41% non-atheist/atheist, while it looks like there was a famous book/study by sociologist Elaine Howard Ecklund which showed about 1/3 atheist, 1/3 agnostic, 1/3 spiritual or religious. The latter seems about right to me, but of course I can't say it with any certainty.