It's Clear Syrians Crave Westernization.

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Syrians, especially younger ones, crave a country that is more like Turkey, less like the Soviet Union. Recent news stories involving refugees entering Turkey while fleeing Raqqa where ISIS has a stronghold confirm this. They spoke bitterly about how Western Jihadists lured to ISIS were pampered with western conveniences by the regime while Syrians were deprived.

What an inane thread!

Its an interesting news story, but it has nothing to do with the title of your thread.


Syrians in Turkey are fleeing barrel bombs dropped by Assad, and/or collaroral damage from the civil war, and/or a reign of terror by ISIS, or ethnic cleansing by ISIS (or by some other of the groups fighting).

If I am forced to take refuge at your house at the point of a gun it doesnt mean that I admire something about your house. Its just means I don't wanna die. Lol!

So the fact that a million Syrians are camped out in Turkey doesnt prove any widespread admiration for Turkey in Syria.

You may even have the right conclusion, but you're making it for the wrong reasons- reasons that have nothing to do with proving your point.

Prior to the Civil War (when Syria was at peace under the iron hand of Assad) there probably were a large number (mostly among the educated urban middle class) of Syrians who probably did view Turkey as a role model for a future kind of Syria: kinda secular, kinda democratic. But the fact that theyre fleeing to Turkey right now to save their lives has nothing to do with that.

In fact thats kinda the problem.And the whole very tragedy of it.

Over throwing the secular dictatorship of the Assad dynasty was supposed to quickly result in a secular democracy.Instead it caused an endless civil war, and it caused a religious dictatorship to take over some parts of Syria. So they went from secular tyranny (albeit by rulers of particular ethnic-religious group) to nonsecular tyranny.

But (back to the story) it is interesting that apparently: if you are a Westerner, and you get recruited to ISIS by the Net, and you then make the long journey to Raqqa to join ISIS ( I am sure Raqqa doesnt get reliable electricity 24-7 these days)that ISIS will "pamper" you (relatively speaking) by doling out more electricity, and electrical appliances to you then they do for others (even to most of their own fighters). Its...so hard to attract decent terrorists these days!

Turkey is not West.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjxAArOkoA0

Last edited by Nebogipfel on 27 Nov 2015, 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Syrian refugees are taking refuge in the West because our secular states treat them far better than any Islamic state ever would.

You misunderstood what I meant by westernization.
This thread is not inane. Syrians in Turkey expressed distress at being deprived of western quirks by ISIS. It was what these Jihadis living in western Europe were used to and they refused to stay in ISIS without them so ISIS leaders spent money to be sure the western born Jihadis had everything they wanted and would stay put. The Syrians were not allowed access to the same privileges and it upset them. It's obvious they want something besides Soviet style deprivation.

you're just repeating the same nonsense over again.

Its still nonsense.

If you jumped off a boat that sank in a Caribbean Hurricane and were rescued by the Cuban coast guard it wouldnt mean that you "crave living under Fidel Castro". It would just mean that you were rescued from drowning by the closest people available who happened to be Cuban.

Turkey is next door to Syria so if you're gonna flee Syria Turkey is a logical place to go.
And folks flee to escape death. Not because ISIS is unfair about enforcing TV watching curfews. The later is just an added complaint.

You are completely misunderstanding my posts. Did I ever say anyone left Syria because ISIS withholds goodies? These people left Raqqa with the complaint they were treated like non citizens in their own country while ISIS recruits born in Western European countries are treated like royalty so they won't abandon ISIS. Why are you twisting everything?
From what I have read in The New York Times, young Syrians in the region want what those in Western Europe have. They don't want to be deprived. Why is that so difficult for you? It's a normal response to want what you are deprived. You are taking that and twisting it into some sort of distorted message - they left because they had no Internet access. That is not why they left and we both know it but do not deny they have a right to want what those in western Europe have access to.

I think the hoards of Syrians will easternize the West.

Maybe they're not heading for the Soviet Union because, since 1991, there has been no such place. It doesn't exist anymore.

Haha. Thanks for informing me of that. I wasn't aware.

Anyone who feels like arguing do so with The New York Times since that was the inspiration behind this topic. It was an article about ISIS wives who fled Raqqa and nearby towns. It is their complaints that caused me to conclude they crave a more westernized existence and since they have more experience with Syria and ISIS than most of us. The article was all about how they got caught up in ISIS, what life was like before, and how it is known to locals as The Organization. It's interesting reading it from them rather than people who have never been to Syria. Why argue with what they say? They resented the foreigners who came to their country and were treated like royalty in ISIS, granted privilege and status. They would also like access to a lifestyle westerners take for granted. They had to whip women just for wearing their clothing too tightly. They felt they had to obtain roles within The Organization to avoid retaliation.

It's like I said before: Syrian refugees are coming to the West because people in Western secular states treat them far better than people in any Islamic state ever would.

Women have been having the same desert dreams since Rudolf Valentineo. Movies do not have the constant heat, sand getting everywhere, and the need to work all day every day to survive.

So fighters get a housekeeper, and women are expected to be a housekeeper.

Leaving ISIS is risking your life, crossing hundreds of miles of desert, for the dream of a bathtub.

Some of the worst days of my life were taking a woman hiking in the mountains. She wanted to come, but seemed to expect the wilderness was like the interstate, with restaurants and bathrooms. As the day wore on they became more irrational. Make camp, start fire, and she demands we go back to the car, four hours away, it is getting dark, and I refuse. She cannot stop talking. I get accused of kidnapping. I take my sleeping bag and leave, seeking silence beneath the stars. I get followed and accused of emotional murder, leaving her for the bears. I say I left because she is calling to bears. Returning to the tent I find she has used all the water to wash up. I was going to make tea and freeze dried food. Nothing to eat or drink.

I know I should not pity ISIS, but I imagine she was thrown in the back of a truck for a long ride to a Turkish bus stop, and bought a ticket.

Syrians crave that which works, and they see things they cannot afford on TV.

What we cannot see is how they are connected to family, clan, tribe, and how they can be happy with less material goods.

I watched the whole two hour video. Europe lacks direction. Their identity is political. They want to have a democratic vote over what crops farmers plant. They know nothing of farming, but think their opinion should matter.

A survey of life happiness showed none of the industrial western countries were happy, satisfied with their life, but Mexico was at the top of the charts. The same for other countries where family and culture were strong. Material wealth was isolating, disconnecting, and depressing.

The problems with Earth are all personal.

Baathist/Nasserist regimes are a direct result of sectarian and tribal attitudes over centuries. Baathist regimes are typically minority dictatorships. They gain control because they fear it. Many rebelled against it becuase they were not in the minority. These regimes are the flip side of the Ayatollahs and Sheiks.

Yes some are fed up of it, but there is still a lot of mutual hatred and paranoia that fuels this.

We arent "arguing" with you. We cant even figure what you're trying to say well enough to either agree, or disagree with you. You come off as hopelessly muddled and confused. And we're trying get you to clarify. And you just keep on being confusing. And keep on sounding confused yourself.



BUT...I just now figured what your semantic problem is.

The reason for this semantic mess is that you are using the Cold War with the old Soviet Union as an analogy to the current Syrian crises. And its a false analogy. And because its false analogy its also confusing.

Bottom line:

What you MEANT to say is probably something like this: "The refugees who flee the town of Raqqaa demonstrate that even Muslims don't want to live under Islamic Law (or atleast not extreme versions of it)".

That would have made sense as a statement. And further- its probably also largely a true statement.

But you're dragging in the old USSR, and you're using the lingo from the old Cold War era ( East vs West) that doesnt apply to the current situation, and confuses the reader, and makes the reader think that you yourself are so confused that you need to be told "Earth to Ana...the USSR doesnt exist anymore."