Limiting speech that can be offensive to minorities

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K_Kelly
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06 Dec 2015, 6:38 pm

What does everyone here think of limiting speech that can be offensive to minorities, also considering most people here have disabilities? I think there is a growing movement to create hateful speech laws. I don't think this is a good idea. "Hate speech" has no legal definition in America, as far as I know. I just believe that people should be free to say offensive things. Yes, I know how people should have a right to react against it. I'm not a hypocrite.



wilburforce
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06 Dec 2015, 6:45 pm

K_Kelly wrote:
What does everyone here think of limiting speech that can be offensive to minorities, also considering most people here have disabilities? I think there is a growing movement to create hateful speech laws. I don't think this is a good idea. "Hate speech" has no legal definition in America, as far as I know. I just believe that people should be free to say offensive things. Yes, I know how people should have a right to react against it. I'm not a hypocrite.


ETA: since it's not letting me embed images because this website sucks, i will have to just put links to the images i meant to share here instead.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&source=imgres&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwik-s_NtMjJAhWKHx4KHf_EDYcQjRwICTAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbturn.com%2F4216%2Fnazi-propaganda-posters-in-serbia-during-world-war-two&psig=AFQjCNE9HaKJx7S5i-h5cpW-6ldID8jLZw&ust=1449531724837955

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&source=imgres&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjVjoPPtMjJAhUK1R4KHZVcBzIQjRwICTAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.crestock.com%2Fblog%2Fdesign%2Fgerman-propaganda-posters-from-the-20th-century-129.aspx&psig=AFQjCNEklGJFU6DMfAcYojO769kUaUm4RA&ust=1449531727781773

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=i&source=imgres&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiO0qH7tcjJAhWBFR4KHWRaDU8QjRwICTAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Folive-drab.com%2Fgallery%2Fcategory_npp.php&psig=AFQjCNGhbvAz1IExY74wjjBY75MCKcNSUA&ust=1449532088950656

Yeah, having no limits on hate speech never did anyone any harm, ever. There is no measurable harm that could ever be done by allowing unlimited hate speech against minorities, like say the incitement of violence against or the normalisation of oppression and murder of said minorities. Yup, that never happens.



Drake
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06 Dec 2015, 9:20 pm

Free speech should mean exactly that.

It doesn't mean you get to do anything you want with words. You can't harass people, you can't put together a plot to murder people or commit other crimes, you can't spread lies about people or groups and destroy their reputations. You can't sell a product and lie about that product. You don't have to commit physical actions to feel the weight of the law, words can get you put in prison. Words can get you fired from your job. Words can get you ostracised from your community. There is no need to curtail free speech.



wilburforce
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06 Dec 2015, 9:39 pm

Drake wrote:
Free speech should mean exactly that.

It doesn't mean you get to do anything you want with words. You can't harass people, you can't put together a plot to murder people or commit other crimes, you can't spread lies about people or groups and destroy their reputations. You can't sell a product and lie about that product. You don't have to commit physical actions to feel the weight of the law, words can get you put in prison. Words can get you fired from your job. Words can get you ostracised from your community. There is no need to curtail free speech.



Well, I live in Canada and thankfully hate speech along with incitement of violence is illegal. America can do what it wants with its laws, doesn't matter to me.



wowiexist
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06 Dec 2015, 9:42 pm

Legally we still have a right to free speech. I guess the problem is people overreact and threaten people who disagree with them, and employers fire their employees for exercising free speech.



wilburforce
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06 Dec 2015, 9:46 pm

wowiexist wrote:
Legally we still have a right to free speech. I guess the problem is people overreact and threaten people who disagree with them, and employers fire their employees for exercising free speech.


In all the cases I've seen, the employers fired people because they said really stupid and offensive s**t in a public forum in which their profile is associated with their place of work. No employer has to let you say all kinds of stuff that makes them look like they employ hateful idiots. Most places have contracts you sign when you begin working for them that have clauses that include being able to fire you if you make public comments that reflect poorly on the company and could negatively impact their ability to do business. If you don't like it, you don't have to sign or work for them.



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06 Dec 2015, 10:19 pm

Illegal Hate speech has a definition in America
Hate speech - Wikipedia

Quote:
In 2011, the Supreme Court issued their ruling on Snyder v. Phelps, which concerned the right of the Westboro Baptist Church to protest with signs found offensive by many Americans. The issue presented was whether the 1st Amendment protected the expressions written on the signs. In an 8-1 decision the court sided with Phelps, the head of Westboro Baptist Church, thereby confirming their historically strong protection of hate speech, so long as it doesn't promote imminent violence. The Court explained, "speech deals with matters of public concern when it can 'be fairly considered as relating to any matter of political, social, or other concern to the community' or when it 'is a subject of general interest and of value and concern to the public."


The movement is to create hate speech codes and safe spaces from hate speech not laws banning it. You can't get arrested and the goverment can't legally stop you from saying most hate speech but your campus can expel you, your employer can fire you, and Wrong Planet can ban you for the same speech.

In the world out there the movement has gone overboard to the point where innocent people are intimidated and free speech is in practicality bieng curtailed. Wrong Planet should be more of a safe space then a college campus.


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wowiexist
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06 Dec 2015, 11:04 pm

wilburforce wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
Legally we still have a right to free speech. I guess the problem is people overreact and threaten people who disagree with them, and employers fire their employees for exercising free speech.


In all the cases I've seen, the employers fired people because they said really stupid and offensive s**t in a public forum in which their profile is associated with their place of work. No employer has to let you say all kinds of stuff that makes them look like they employ hateful idiots. Most places have contracts you sign when you begin working for them that have clauses that include being able to fire you if you make public comments that reflect poorly on the company and could negatively impact their ability to do business. If you don't like it, you don't have to sign or work for them.


Who gets to decide what is stupid and offensive? What if I said on Facebook that I support gay rights but my employer thought that was offensive and fired me?



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07 Dec 2015, 1:28 am

Everyone has a right to be a hateful bigot, including employers, and noöne has to hire you.


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KagamineLen
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07 Dec 2015, 1:45 am

Limiting offensive speech only works if one wants to transform as*holes into martyrs.



Juggynaut
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07 Dec 2015, 2:04 am

I don't see why such laws should be in place. To me, all words are is breath formed within certain patterns to convey a message. Words cannot harm you.


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07 Dec 2015, 4:04 am

I love how people who propose this sort of thing somehow think that they'll protect the powerless from the powerful, in spite of all evidence to the contrary with existing laws. It's particularly egregious coming from progressives who are aware of institutional racism and how it works, but think that their pet laws are somehow exempt from its influence. I think anytime someone thinks "there ought to be a law", they need to first have to think very hard about who will be enforcing that law, both now and in the future, and how it's likely to be applied in the real world.


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izzeme
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07 Dec 2015, 4:19 am

Everyone is a minority in some way or form, restricting speech in this way gets dangerously close to full-on governmental sensorship.

to me, "Hate-speech" is anything said with the explicit intention to offend; if what you said happened to offend someone, so be it.
Some world leader (i think it was churchill, but i'm not sure) once said: "I don't like or agree with what you say, but i'll do all i can to defend your right to say it"



looniverse
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07 Dec 2015, 10:14 am

Banning anything, including hateful speech, tends to make the problem work.

Prohibition? Oopsie. Thanks Capone.
War on drugs? Ha! Ask Colorado how that war's going.

Banning words and ideas? Bad bad bad. It's basic psychology. The more taboo you make something, the more appealing it becomes. I'd rather know who the bigots are by their own words, rather than having closeted bigots plotting in anonymity.



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07 Dec 2015, 10:17 am

Some people will seek something to be offended about no matter what is being said.


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07 Dec 2015, 10:48 am

Juggynaut wrote:
I don't see why such laws should be in place. To me, all words are is breath formed within certain patterns to convey a message. Words cannot harm you.


If only that were all true...but if it was the case things like verbal abuse/harassment or bullying would not have such a negative effect psychologically on people. As for laws I guess it gets a bit more complicated...people should have the right to express their opinions, however that doesn't mean they should be able to say whatever they want, however they want when and where ever they want.

Buisinesses and websites certainly have the right to limit certain kinds of speech or censor it, there are some public spaces where certain speech could be construed as disruptive/disturbing the peace or inciting violence...so yeah I think some guidelines make sense. Though it seems there is a movement to be as belligerent, offensive and bigoted as is humanely possible...and then scream oppression when anyone challenges it, its an interesting phenomenon.

I think that movement is just as ridiculous as the whole, be so ridiculously politically correct you're walking on egg shells movement....I mean damn where is the middle ground? it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other.


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