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ltcvnzl
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14 Jun 2018, 9:20 am

a friend shared on facebook about a festival he is attending to, it's called "ethno-festival" butter, i clicked on the website and the description says

"Sviests (butter) – is a pure product, the best one can get from milk. In this time of margarine we invite to realise and return to values that have stood the test of time. Real values that we can enjoy and be proud of. It takes hard and accurate work to churn butter from milk and cream, to reach the stage when the unnecessary is separated and only the most valuable stays. This is what the music groups in SVIESTS do – they explore and research the ancient traditional music and churn, churn until the very essence appears and the nowadays topical and unheard appears.".

Is this low-key racist or am I reading too much? I feel quite uncomfortable with it. I don't like the comparison of their ethnic culture as something pure and good quality in contrary of some mainstream mixed "margarine". I'm very sad because this guy is my only friend and I isn't the first time I feel uncomfortable with him on something race/ethinc related, but I tend to ignore because we came from very different contexts in this aspects, once when I visited him, he took me to a concert where there was some nationalist songs and everyone sound so emotional it felt weird... but now I'm wondering if I'm just reading too much into thinking this is racist?



kraftiekortie
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14 Jun 2018, 9:21 am

I find they are celebrating their culture, to be honest.

I don't find it racist.

If these folks start denigrating other cultures and races-----then it becomes racist, etc.



ltcvnzl
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14 Jun 2018, 9:24 am

but isn't the butter/margarina comparision exactly a way to compare to other cultures?



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14 Jun 2018, 9:25 am

ltcvnzl wrote:
a friend shared on facebook about a festival he is attending to, it's called "ethno-festival" butter, i clicked on the website and the description says

"Sviests (butter) – is a pure product, the best one can get from milk. In this time of margarine we invite to realise and return to values that have stood the test of time. Real values that we can enjoy and be proud of. It takes hard and accurate work to churn butter from milk and cream, to reach the stage when the unnecessary is separated and only the most valuable stays. This is what the music groups in SVIESTS do – they explore and research the ancient traditional music and churn, churn until the very essence appears and the nowadays topical and unheard appears.".

Is this low-key racist or am I reading too much? I feel quite uncomfortable with it. I don't like the comparison of their ethnic culture as something pure and good quality in contrary of some mainstream mixed "margarine". I'm very sad because this guy is my only friend and I isn't the first time I feel uncomfortable with him on something race/ethinc related, but I tend to ignore because we came from very different contexts in this aspects, once when I visited him, he took me to a concert where there was some nationalist songs and everyone sound so emotional it felt weird... but now I'm wondering if I'm just reading too much into thinking this is racist?


What you put in the middle paragraph isn't inherently racist. I don't have enough information to make a reasonable judgement.

The being said, if your friend took you to see racist music in the past, he might be doing the same thing again.


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kraftiekortie
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14 Jun 2018, 9:30 am

They feel pride in how they make their butter. Maybe they think they make butter better than other cultures.

Some cultures make beef stew better than other cultures; but those other cultures might make oyster stew better.

It doesn't matter to me. It's a sort of "ethnic pride." But as long as they don't denigrate other cultures as far as their character is concerned (I don't care if their butter is better than mine), I don't see that much wrong with taking pride in their butter.

What should happen: Different cultures should have a sort of "butter bakeoff," with judges and all that.



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14 Jun 2018, 9:35 am

ltcvnzl wrote:
but isn't the butter/margarina comparision exactly a way to compare to other cultures?
No, it's a false analogy.

Unless these "butterists" exclude others from their festival on the basis of race, they are not being racist.



kraftiekortie
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14 Jun 2018, 9:41 am

It's inevitable that cultures will compare themselves to other cultures.

If we don't have other cultures, we become boring, homogenized, etc.

It's a more interesting world when cultures are able to "compare themselves" to each other.

Also: this thing about "cultural appropriation." Sheer garbage! Cultures "appropriate" from other cultures all the time. So what if a European wants to acquire a rasta hairstyle?



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 14 Jun 2018, 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

VIDEODROME
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14 Jun 2018, 9:42 am

It may be a slight touch of being elitist. More in terms of the cuisine of their culture perhaps or food snobbery.

Anyway, I'm not sure this Cultural event is exclusionary? Probably anyone can show up for sample or buy this super butter from vendors?

Is this friend even a part of this ethnic group?



ltcvnzl
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14 Jun 2018, 9:48 am

i feel very weird about it coming from a very mixed place, and nobody here seems much concerned about our national culture or anything like this. for this friend, is very different. his country is very homogenous people and they have a long history on being occupied by russia, so i kind of can understand this nationalism feeling and this search/valuing for some national identity... but i can't help to feel a bit weird and uncomfortable about it. in this concert we went i mentioned, i felt very odd because it was like a party i wasn't invited, he sometimes said very negative things about russians or muslims. he also doesn't have the best opinion on homeless people, he even once said they are mostly scammers from romania or other country. i sometimes feel a bit uncomfortable, but he is a good person to me but it's all a different universe and point of view. i know he really likes those folk music and folk metal and folk things in general, but i got a bit annoyed by this festival description.



ltcvnzl
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14 Jun 2018, 9:51 am

VIDEODROME wrote:
It may be a slight touch of being elitist. More in terms of the cuisine of their culture perhaps or food snobbery.

Anyway, I'm not sure this Cultural event is exclusionary? Probably anyone can show up for sample or buy this super butter from vendors?

Is this friend even a part of this ethnic group?


the butter thing is an analogy, it's not about food... the festival is with music and folk traditions/crafts. i guess everyone can show up, but does everyone feels comfortable to show up?

he is.



kraftiekortie
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14 Jun 2018, 9:56 am

If you want to learn about other cultures, you show up.

If they try to exclude you, then there's a problem.

Why should anybody prevent a culture from celebrating itself?

Many places happen to have very homogenized populations. It's just the way it is.

Japan is about 99% or so Japanese.



Sea Breeze
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14 Jun 2018, 10:56 am

I bet it is. Racists see things irrationaly in ethnicities, which is why so many of the so-called antiracists today are really racists themselves.



kraftiekortie
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14 Jun 2018, 10:59 am

In essence, I find this a "mountain over molehills" sort of situation.

Only if they exclude others....does the festival become "racist" or whatever.

Of if the participants start raising Nazi flags or something.....



naturalplastic
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14 Jun 2018, 11:13 am

ltcvnzl wrote:
i feel very weird about it coming from a very mixed place, and nobody here seems much concerned about our national culture or anything like this. for this friend, is very different. his country is very homogenous people and they have a long history on being occupied by russia, so i kind of can understand this nationalism feeling and this search/valuing for some national identity... but i can't help to feel a bit weird and uncomfortable about it. in this concert we went i mentioned, i felt very odd because it was like a party i wasn't invited, he sometimes said very negative things about russians or muslims. he also doesn't have the best opinion on homeless people, he even once said they are mostly scammers from romania or other country. i sometimes feel a bit uncomfortable, but he is a good person to me but it's all a different universe and point of view. i know he really likes those folk music and folk metal and folk things in general, but i got a bit annoyed by this festival description.


Where is he from? Moldavia? Latvia,Lithuania, or Estonia?

Its quite a contrast. Someone from the old world were they are still caught up in the local tribal hatreds with their neighbors...and then they migrate to a new land. A big sprawling brawling continental sized country like the US, or Australia, or especially like your country of Brazil, that has immigrants from all over the planet thrown together into a melting pot. Yet your friend is still fighting the fight to maintain the identity of his little ancestrial country back in the old world. But in my opinion for a person to say that "it's honor to be Irish" is fine, as long as it's not a "dishonor" NOT to be Irish. This festival may seem quaint to a Brazilian, but it may not be out and out racist.



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14 Jun 2018, 12:00 pm

ltcvnzl wrote:
i guess everyone can show up, but does everyone feels comfortable to show up?

If you are shocked and made feel uncomfortable by a common albeit a little immodest margarine advert you better stay home and let the people there have fun without anyone ruining it.
Sea Breeze wrote:
I bet it is. Racists see things irrationaly in ethnicities, which is why so many of the so-called antiracists today are really racists themselves.

What do you mean?



ltcvnzl
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14 Jun 2018, 12:41 pm

Peacesells wrote:
ltcvnzl wrote:
i guess everyone can show up, but does everyone feels comfortable to show up?

If you are shocked and made feel uncomfortable by a common albeit a little immodest margarine advert you better stay home and let the people there have fun without anyone ruining it.
Sea Breeze wrote:
I bet it is. Racists see things irrationaly in ethnicities, which is why so many of the so-called antiracists today are really racists themselves.

What do you mean?


the margarine thing wasn't an advert, it was a comparison as their traditional culture is butter (ie. a high quality, pure culture) in contrast of nowadays culture of margarine (ie. low quality, mixed cultures). that's where i'm getting the racist vibe, because they are valuing their traditions exactly by putting it in contrast with some low quality and mixed product. coming from a mixed background, and having some issues from it, it hits an uncomfortable place for me.

i'm not planning on going as i live in the other side of the planet, but i just wanted to know if i'm getting a wrong vibe coming from a very different place or if there is really a underlaying racism/ethnocentrism.

i'm not ruining anyone's fun, i'm just pointing out something i feel uncomfortable about to people who is completely unrelated to it – exactly because i don't want to ruin anyone's fun, i don't want to tell about it to my friend and then maybe make him uncomfortable.