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The_Face_of_Boo
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01 May 2016, 2:16 pm

..., and up to the wall, every year, on this time of the year, on what they call Saturday of Light - it is when a massive mass done on Great Saturday (Orthodox Easter) in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and they claim that a blue light appears from Jesus burial place that turns into a kind of non-burning fire from which candles are lit, which are then used to light the candles of the clergy and pilgrims in attendance.
Then they claim they send those flames from Jerusalem in planes in vocals or something to other Orthodoxe cathedrals in Lebanon and Egypt..., from which they light the candles etc.

Traditionally, and to gain more credibility, they also invite Muslim Palestinians and Jews(Israeli police) to search the monks to check if there's any any lighting devices.

Here a video of the miracle ceremony.



They are free to believe their own tricks, what is so bothering that many of the local Orthodoxes (I am not sure if elsewhere have this annoying attitude) , in this time of the year, every time, they get an ENORMOUS HEAD, and they start troll others in real life and on social media - every time I encounter one and they are like:

This is an inexpiable miracle!! It's beyond science, Muslims, Jews and atheists all tried to search for something and they couldn't find anything, Hahahaha the Christ is real, follow the Christ!, or like; No one else has such miracle! Our church is the truth! Hahahaah.

They are sooooo annoying, I really feel like wanting to slap those annoying ones in the face. :|



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 01 May 2016, 6:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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01 May 2016, 2:17 pm

They even troll the local Catholics, they claim that at one year of history, the Catholic church insisted to lead the mass ceremony but their Patriarch (Catholic) failed to summon the blue light and the holy fire, and instead it lit only the candles in the hand of the Orthodox Patriarch.



Yigeren
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01 May 2016, 2:19 pm

That would annoy me, too. Especially since it's fake.



The_Face_of_Boo
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01 May 2016, 2:23 pm

They are like 'Oh, God is Orthodoxe, this never happens with Catholics' too.



0_equals_true
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01 May 2016, 2:31 pm

The catholic church has its equivalents trust me.

Miracles=Propaganda.



Yigeren
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01 May 2016, 2:33 pm

Can't someone just prove that it's fake?


They have a right to believe in whatever, but it's annoying that they have to go around claiming religious superiority over some trickery that they've created. Although the followers probably believe it.

It's just like a magic show. They ought to get Penn and Teller to point out how it's done.



naturalplastic
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01 May 2016, 2:39 pm

Be grateful that they don't handle live rattlesnakes in church ( like American Protestant Pentecostals do)!



The_Face_of_Boo
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01 May 2016, 2:49 pm

Yigeren wrote:
Can't someone just prove that it's fake?


They have a right to believe in whatever, but it's annoying that they have to go around claiming religious superiority over some trickery that they've created. Although the followers probably believe it.

It's just like a magic show. They ought to get Penn and Teller to point out how it's done.


Well they claim that Muslim and Jewish security searches the participating monks hence it must be authentic.

Even trick magicians ask for audience in shows to check for something to claim credibility.

I highly doubt that they search every caveat and rock of the church.



The_Face_of_Boo
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01 May 2016, 2:52 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
The catholic church has its equivalents trust me.

Miracles=Propaganda.


Yes, crying statutes and the like.

But personally I haven't encountered a such big headed attitude from them.



GGPViper
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01 May 2016, 3:45 pm

There is a 13th century Zen saying which I find quite appropriate in this situation:

Bankei Yōtaku wrote:
When Bankei was preaching at Ryumon temple, a Shinshu priest, who believed in salvation through the repitition of the name of the Buddha of Love, was jealous of his large audience and wanted to debate with him.

Bankei was in the midst of a talk when the priest appeared, but the fellow made such a disturbance that bankei stopped his discourse and asked about the noise.

"The founder of our sect," boasted the priest, "had such miraculous powers that he held a brush in his hand on one bank of the river, his attendant held up a paper on the other bank, and the teacher wrote the holy name of Amida through the air. Can you do such a wonderful thing?"

Bankei replied lightly: "Perhaps your fox can perform that trick, but that is not the manner of Zen. My miracle is that when I feel hungry I eat, and when I feel thirsty I drink."


Source: http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/80therealmiracle.html

Or more specifically: One's faith must be shallow, indeed, if it relies on public displays of fancy tricks and fireworks...



0_equals_true
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01 May 2016, 3:59 pm

Yigeren wrote:
It's just like a magic show. They ought to get Penn and Teller to point out how it's done.


Get James Randi



pezar
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01 May 2016, 4:20 pm

ALL forms of Christianity seem to be loaded with this sort of thing. Belief in "miracles" is common among Christians here in the US, and it can get pretty lulzy at times. There are faith healing cults that promise to heal people via prayer. Christian Science is well known, but they're not the only ones. There's a cult called Followers of Christ in Idaho that simply rubs believers down with rancid olive oil, has them drink kosher wine, and prays over them. When it doesn't work, the sick person is angrily blamed and beaten. Infants routinely die, and anybody from the mother to the person holding the baby when it died is blamed.

Even some of the more accepted Christian offshoots like Mormons have people who believe in prayer as a cure-all, although I should note that at least in Mormonism faith healing is largely not accepted by the central governing authority. Catholics have a big problem with miracle cults, thousands of people will flock to extremely dubious "miracles". We have few Eastern Orthodox here, so I don't know much about them. But if OP ever runs into some of these really weird neo-Protestant faith healing devotees we have here online, he will see that they can be just as loony.



Simargl
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01 May 2016, 4:57 pm

I'm Ortodox.

I did none of this you are accusing, and you have been very rude and unfair.

Where is now we all have equal rights blah blah blah

I'm very very disappointed now.

I really didn't expect prejudices and hatred here, not on this site.


Thanks for forcing me out before I made even bigger mistake then joining this site.


I wish you all best.



Last edited by Simargl on 01 May 2016, 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BaalChatzaf
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01 May 2016, 5:01 pm

pezar wrote:
ALL forms of Christianity seem to be loaded with this sort of thing. Belief in "miracles" is common among Christians here in the US, and it can get pretty lulzy at times. There are faith healing cults that promise to heal people via prayer. Christian Science is well known, but they're not the only ones. There's a cult called Followers of Christ in Idaho that simply rubs believers down with rancid olive oil, has them drink kosher wine, and prays over them. When it doesn't work, the sick person is angrily blamed and beaten. Infants routinely die, and anybody from the mother to the person holding the baby when it died is blamed.

Even some of the more accepted Christian offshoots like Mormons have people who believe in prayer as a cure-all, although I should note that at least in Mormonism faith healing is largely not accepted by the central governing authority. Catholics have a big problem with miracle cults, thousands of people will flock to extremely dubious "miracles". We have few Eastern Orthodox here, so I don't know much about them. But if OP ever runs into some of these really weird neo-Protestant faith healing devotees we have here online, he will see that they can be just as loony.


you are confusing Mormons with Christian Science followers or Jehova's Witnesses.


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Yigeren
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01 May 2016, 5:27 pm

Simargl wrote:
I'm Ortodox.

I did none of this you are accusing, and you have been very rude and unfair.

Where is now we all have equal rights blah blah blah

I'm very very disappointed now.

I really didn't expect prejudices and hatred here, not on this site.


Thanks for forcing me out before I made even bigger mistake then joining this site.


I wish you all best.


I don't have anything against Orthodox Christians.

I don't like people claiming religious superiority, and harassing other people about it. I don't like it when anyone of any religion does it, including atheists, even though I'm an agnostic atheist.

Plus I think faking miracles and such is really wrong, no matter the religion.

I didn't see this as being an anti-Orthodox thread, more like an anti-people-who-throw-their-religion-in-the-faces-of-others thread.



0_equals_true
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01 May 2016, 5:55 pm

Simargl wrote:
I'm Ortodox.

I did none of this you are accusing, and you have been very rude and unfair.


There are multiple Orthodox sects and patriarchs.

You took it as rude, but he was merely describing his experience with the Orthodox Christians who were goading others about their faith.

Nearly all the Christian sects have at one point claimed to be the true path.

There is a splinter from the Greek Orthodox church that is rebelling an refusing to move of an an island monastery, becuase of improved relations with Rome.