What you think about Fall of Man (Adam and Eve)?

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pawelk1986
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18 Jun 2016, 9:45 am

I’m Catholic, i know that
I wonder about belief in original sin, which is the basis of all Christian beliefs.

If Adam and Eve, to understand what is good and evil after eating the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which the Lord God had expressly forbidden to them, Adam and Eve could not know that not listening to the will of God is wrong, they could understand only if they ate the forbidden fruit.



naturalplastic
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18 Jun 2016, 10:42 am

Never thought of that before.

Prior to eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would not have known it was wrong to disobey orders from God. So they would not have know it was wrong to disobey and eat the fruit. So God was punishing them when they couldnt have known any better.



gingerpickles
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18 Jun 2016, 11:25 am

In the legend of faith, they were told do not, well originally Adam was. Adam seemed quite able to follow instructions (name the beasts , etc), when singular with no other influence (peer pressure) he did not even entertain the notion of disobedience. This seems to have gone for some time since there was not yet decay of "aging". Though I will point out that God seemed to have actually physically visited but never says with what frequency.
With addition of Eve there seemed no trouble but when adding a third voice that claimed to be in the know and painted them as duped victims, they succumbed and the next visit went poorly as we all know.

The whole thing seemed a test, or testament of obedience
Why else have some dumb tree you can't touch. Like having a pyrocatha tree in middle of back yard and telling your kids to stay away because it is poison but they reason "birds eat the berries, they must be delicious". We do not go into long discussion of right or wrong or all the things that happen if they eat it. Children do not know right or wrong until they have a few years under their belt. We get their obedience through trust and authority.
We tell them not to. (Of course experienced parents just cut the tree down before they are walking age).

And we have been failing tests ever since. Finally we got reprieve through Christ. (this applies if Christian)


edit add: Curse you insert key!


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Last edited by gingerpickles on 18 Jun 2016, 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

drlaugh
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18 Jun 2016, 11:35 am

..and men and woman have been hiding behind fig leaves of many descriptions ever since.

As in this Hank Williams cover. I was a wandering life filled with sin.

I saw the light.


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Darmok
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18 Jun 2016, 11:50 am

"When Newton saw an apple fall, he found
In that slight startle from his contemplation --
'T is said (for I'll not answer above ground
For any sage's creed or calculation) --
A mode of proving that the earth turn'd round
In a most natural whirl, called 'gravitation';
And this is the sole mortal who could grapple,
Since Adam, with a fall or with an apple."


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drlaugh
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18 Jun 2016, 11:52 am

Nice words. I'm know most would say it wasn't an apple in The Garden.

Sssssss

Love and prayers
Shalom brother Zvi


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Fnord
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18 Jun 2016, 12:13 pm

It's a cute way to explain why bad things happen to good people, why humans have knowledge, why women menstruate, why men have to work themselves to death, and why humans cover their nakedness.

Unfortunately, it also falsely renders justification for (1) blaming women for bringing sin into the world, for (2) labeling women as "temptresses", and for (3) denying women equal status with men.

It was written during the Bronze Age by men to support the male-dominated society of the time. Thus was born the Judeo-Christian and Islami patriarchies that we know today.


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Grischa
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18 Jun 2016, 12:20 pm

I'm afraid we're now experiencing the Second Fall of Man.
Eating from the fruits of Science.
Result. . . First Fall of Man, Man is excommunicated from Paradise. Second Fall of Man, Man loses his belief in Paradise and God.
Doesn't believe it. Doesn't like it. Doesn't understand.

Fortunately arguments in favour of God can also evolve. Perhaps. . . but I guess only with a total Paradigm Change. Something like. . .
Not the second coming of God, but His coming out.
Not Man created to his likeness, but God coming to earth as Man
Not to live in Paradise, but to experience Paradise
Not to look for a justification for suffering, but to believe God is experiencing all suffering
or what YOU want
from the Divine Government. Department of Divine Services. Team Divinity
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Fnord
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18 Jun 2016, 12:22 pm

Ooo ... yet another attempt at bashing Science by a person who uses and enjoys scientific accomplishments every day of his life!

Loose the hounds!

:lol:


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pawelk1986
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18 Jun 2016, 12:32 pm

gingerpickles wrote:
In the legend of faith, they were told do not, well originally Adam was. Adam seemed quite able to follow instructions (name the beasts , etc), when singular with no other influence (peer pressure) he did not even entertain the notion of disobedience. This seems to have gone for some time since there was not yet decay of "aging". Though I will point out that God seemed to have actually physically visited but never says with what frequency.
With addition of Eve there seemed no trouble but when adding a third voice that claimed to be in the know and painted them as duped victims, they succumbed and the next visit went poorly as we all know.

The whole thing seemed a test, or testament of obedience
Why else have some dumb tree you can't touch. Like having a pyrocatha tree in middle of back yard and telling your kids to stay away because it is poison but they reason "birds eat the berries, they must be delicious". We do not go into long discussion of right or wrong or all the things that happen if they eat it. Children do not know right or wrong until they have a few years under their belt. We get their obedience through trust and authority.
We tell them not to. (Of course experienced parents just cut the tree down before they are walking age).

And we have been failing tests ever since. Finally we got reprieve through Christ. (this applies if Christian)


edit add: Curse you insert key!

This biblical story of Adam and Eve has always interested me, I remember a priest once spoke of Adam and Eve during a Sunday sermon, I wonder why God punished Adam and Eve when they could not distinguish right from wrong, before they ate the forbidden fruit.
I believing Christian, but this is bit unfair.
But after all we was redempted by sacrifice of Jesus Christ.



Grischa
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18 Jun 2016, 12:36 pm

If you mean my post. . not true
Science or fruits of science, I don't want to do without
But wondering if this means that God is dead
God after the second fall = God in the age of Science

if you did not mean my post, skip this



androbot01
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18 Jun 2016, 12:52 pm

I've often wondered if the apple myth is a metaphor for agriculture. The knowledge being that of sustaining a larger population by cultivation an animal husbandry.



pcuser
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18 Jun 2016, 4:22 pm

Most of the arguments here are based on faith with no evidence. When you talk like something is a fact when it isn't, you sounds ignorant...



yelekam
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18 Jun 2016, 5:14 pm

Fnord wrote:
It's a cute way to explain why bad things happen to good people, why humans have knowledge, why women menstruate, why men have to work themselves to death, and why humans cover their nakedness.

Unfortunately, it also falsely renders justification for (1) blaming women for bringing sin into the world, for (2) labeling women as "temptresses", and for (3) denying women equal status with men.

It was written during the Bronze Age by men to support the male-dominated society of the time. Thus was born the Judeo-Christian and Islami patriarchies that we know today.


I would put forward the counter consideration of the arguments of Sarah Grimke. In her Letters on the Equality of the Sexes, she makes the argument that this notion of interpreting the Bible as declaring women as inferior and temptresses was a willful misinterpretation and mistranslation of the early male dominated church. She puts forward that women were created under the story of genesis as equals, but that part of the result of the fall into sin was that men would engage in wrongfully subjugating women. She contended that the portion of genesis which talks about the negative reprecussions on women was originally written as a professy and that later church officials rewrote it as commands from god to justify the negative practices they engaged in.

As a Diyinian, I don't believe in the Christian Bible. But I figured I would put forward an alternative point of view to show that that interpretation of the bible is not to strait forward or indisputable.



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18 Jun 2016, 5:24 pm

Here is your clarification...

~ The Tree of Evil & the knowledge thereof ~
&
The forbidden fruit

pawelk1986 wrote:
I’m Catholic, i know that
I wonder about belief in original sin, which is the basis of all Christian beliefs.

If Adam and Eve, to understand what is good and evil after eating the forbidden fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which the Lord God had expressly forbidden to them, Adam and Eve could not know that not listening to the will of God is wrong, they could understand only if they ate the forbidden fruit.


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drlaugh
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18 Jun 2016, 6:17 pm

In some interpretations Adam was close enough to hear the conversation as Eve handed him the fruit rather quickly.
He passed the blame. As men and women can still do today.

Pass the Figs, Newton.


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