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Mootoo
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25 Jun 2016, 2:11 pm

I'm frankly surprised there isn't more discussion about this topic in the UK, especially after Jo Cox was murdered... she is indeed a martyr if she died without repercussions (not just the jailing of the killer). These hate-filled bastards - thugs really if you watch any one of their videos - are currently celebrating because of brexit... but they should not be allowed to continue like this, surely. If they aren't stopped, at the very least, they'll end up murdering more and more and soon the UK is Pakistan where suddenly no one can state any political opinion (banning anything effectively runs into the same issue, but we're dealing with different degrees here... it's not like hate speech law isn't already there, but why isn't it enacted, anyway? Or, it may be, but only individually... as a group it continues as a hate machine, possibly even worse than the 'EDL').

But.... there is only a barely signed petition so far. -_-



GGPViper
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25 Jun 2016, 4:04 pm

Should [INSERT DISLIKED POLITICAL/RELIGIOUS ORIENTATION HERE] groups be banned? How?

Oh, and some food for thought...

In the last two days you have now asked for people you disagree with to:

- Be deported to an island
- Be "culled"
- Lose their right to vote
- Lose their freedom of association

... that's so far right that Mussolini seems like a tree-hugging hippie in comparison...



gingerpickles
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25 Jun 2016, 4:15 pm

Sugar, Bless your Heart but you need to get a good hold on yourself. Some therapy and if you take meds, have then re evaluated.
No "Group" should be banned. It only ever sounds good to the ones doing the banning.
How far is "far" right. What about "far" left? Groups like BLM? Or (imo) ANY other group that has had incidences of violence caused by their members WHILE in group ..IN public ... and in the name of the groups on multiple occasion
Are muslim far right? or far left?
Eu right and left:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics

R/L for UK/EU are different a little from US usage. In some countries the ideologies are flipped between right and left even .
(not that Wiki is reigning authority, but it is head start for research)


Illegal acts, acts of terrorism are to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of local law.
Opinions though? are just that. I was offended but carried on with my day when comments about me while overweight were heard.

Or hearing that "you don't want her, shes mexican, your kids will be spotted"


Or "What are you looking at, you White b***h?"

Or called a breeder and mouth breather for having >gasp< two kids and an older car

Or being called a babykiller and fascist for simply having a post sticker on my vehicle

I fight for truly equal rights.


Words are words and idea are just ideas. No prohibition will make the ideas die, only make them hide in the shadow.
No act of hostility is legal in a person's personal space. Be it spit, bag of catshit on fire, shoving or a bullet.
An I am all for ability to defend with deadly force the millisecond it crosses from words to attack


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Mikah
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25 Jun 2016, 4:29 pm

That petition is a bit overstated, I saw an article that showed only 300k votes actually came from the UK. If anyone is going to change the expected result of this vote it will be the treasonous blaggards in parliament.
As for butthurt young people saying we all want to remain, turnout figures suggests relatively few young people bothered voting at all. Perhaps some of your anger should be directed to the rest of your age group who apparently don't give a crap either way rather than seeking to set up a Gulag.


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Kraichgauer
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25 Jun 2016, 4:45 pm

If political lunatics commit crimes, then punish them. Otherwise, let them be refuted and humiliated in public discourse.


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Mootoo
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25 Jun 2016, 4:48 pm

gingerpickles, 'Britain First', like the BNP, doesn't just spout onions. It hates entire groups and murder those who try to help those groups. I don't agree with censorship either, but other extremist groups are already being targeted offline and at times also online (but online isn't the worst these groups do, no). Simply, violent groups are usually banned... and far- anything are usually extremists which resort to violence. I'd like equal rights too.

GGPViper, I'm being the devil's advocate here, as stated in the other threads, especially with regards to democracy (of which there is a deficit whether a country is in the EU or not).

Mikah, there was a low turnout because the currently headless government made it as difficult as possible for those who travel often, i.e. if they're in university. But, those who did vote wanted to remain by 75%. And, gulag? That is actually what is to be a feared possibility under the new future potentially fascist right-wing Tories. Not to mention they're electing a leader nobody voted for. How's that for democracy?



Kraichgauer
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25 Jun 2016, 5:05 pm

Mootoo wrote:
gingerpickles, 'Britain First', like the BNP, doesn't just spout onions. It hates entire groups and murder those who try to help those groups. I don't agree with censorship either, but other extremist groups are already being targeted offline and at times also online (but online isn't the worst these groups do, no). Simply, violent groups are usually banned... and far- anything are usually extremists which resort to violence. I'd like equal rights too.

GGPViper, I'm being the devil's advocate here, as stated in the other threads, especially with regards to democracy (of which there is a deficit whether a country is in the EU or not).

Mikah, there was a low turnout because the currently headless government made it as difficult as possible for those who travel often, i.e. if they're in university. But, those who did vote wanted to remain by 75%. And, gulag? That is actually what is to be a feared possibility under the new future potentially fascist right-wing Tories. Not to mention they're electing a leader nobody voted for. How's that for democracy?


I see that voter disenfranchisement scheming isn't restricted to America's right wing.


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Mikah
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25 Jun 2016, 5:10 pm

Quote:
Mikah, there was a low turnout because the currently headless government made it as difficult as possible for those who travel often, i.e. if they're in university.


That's a poor excuse, there was ample time to register, set up a postal or proxy vote, if they didn't do it in time - they didn't care enough.

Quote:
That is actually what is to be a feared possibility under the new future potentially fascist right-wing Tories.


Or perhaps a fascist left wing Corbyn government? Don't forget where the gulags came from

Quote:
Not to mention they're electing a leader nobody voted for. How's that for democracy?


So we should stay in the undemocratic EU instead.


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pawelk1986
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25 Jun 2016, 5:23 pm

I think not, even as they are total psychos, because as it introduces some political bans, sooner or later there is political terrorism, because only such a way that they only remains, it is better to let them do fools of themself in parliament so voters know on what idiots they casted their precious vote :D , and above all do not give them reasons to do with each other some of the martyrs for the cause :D



Barchan
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25 Jun 2016, 5:42 pm

I don't know how freedom-of-association laws work in the UK.

In America, though, I think groups that have unconstitutional views should not be allowed to participate in the political system, as this creates a conflict of interests.



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25 Jun 2016, 5:49 pm

Society already engages in far too much Social-Masturbation ever since the WTC-Incident...


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25 Jun 2016, 6:31 pm

Isn't the so-called "far-right" racist, xenophobic groups a necessary evil in society? Surely, everyone should have the right to have an opinion and not be condemned for it. But, if the left happens to do or say anything disliked by society, they can't be condemned for it. Read up "Black Lives Matter" in the US.

I would personally like to see the far-right rise up and destroy the left, considering the damage the left has done here to America.



JohnPowell
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25 Jun 2016, 6:32 pm

Mootoo wrote:
gingerpickles, 'Britain First', like the BNP, doesn't just spout onions. It hates entire groups and murder those who try to help those groups. I don't agree with censorship either, but other extremist groups are already being targeted offline and at times also online (but online isn't the worst these groups do, no). Simply, violent groups are usually banned... and far- anything are usually extremists which resort to violence. I'd like equal rights too.

GGPViper, I'm being the devil's advocate here, as stated in the other threads, especially with regards to democracy (of which there is a deficit whether a country is in the EU or not).

Mikah, there was a low turnout because the currently headless government made it as difficult as possible for those who travel often, i.e. if they're in university. But, those who did vote wanted to remain by 75%. And, gulag? That is actually what is to be a feared possibility under the new future potentially fascist right-wing Tories. Not to mention they're electing a leader nobody voted for. How's that for democracy?



The people on the opposite side also resort to violence, so should they be banned too? To say the Blairite Tories are "right wing", is outrageous.


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Fogman
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25 Jun 2016, 7:01 pm

No, they shouldn't be banned, as their viewpoints, as abhorrent as they are, are protected under 1st amendment of the US constitution. --I would rather they display themselves out in the open to be scorned and ridiculed, rather than have them covertly pursue their agenda because they are not allowed to express their viewpoints.

Besides, if you ban them from expressing their viewpoints, then it will soon follow that other forms of free expression will be banned, and then we will be no better than China, Saudi Arabia, or other countries where freedom of expression is banned.


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pawelk1986
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25 Jun 2016, 7:13 pm

Fogman wrote:
No, they shouldn't be banned, as their viewpoints, as abhorrent as they are, are protected under 1st amendment of the US constitution. --I would rather they display themselves out in the open to be scorned and ridiculed, rather than have them covertly pursue their agenda because they are not allowed to express their viewpoints.

Besides, if you ban them from expressing their viewpoints, then it will soon follow that other forms of free expression will be banned, and then we will be no better than China, Saudi Arabia, or other countries where freedom of expression is banned.

And what is forbidden tastes better :D
Beside banned group are more likely initiate real violence, since them were only a possibility,
Better to let them participate in the political discourse and the ridicule them-self :mrgreen:



naturalplastic
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25 Jun 2016, 7:27 pm

Barchan wrote:
I don't know how freedom-of-association laws work in the UK.

In America, though, I think groups that have unconstitutional views should not be allowed to participate in the political system, as this creates a conflict of interests.


That doesn't work.

You can't deny freedom of speech to folks even when they use their freedom of speech to advocate the outlawing of freedom of speech.

The American Nazis had the right to march in Skokie Illinois even though they would outlaw freedom of speech if they got into power.