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dktekno
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24 May 2007, 3:17 pm

I live in a small town in Denmark. I live my own life here, in this litle area, in this litle country. Is it my business what is going on in Singapore? In North Korea? In the US? In China?

Most people tell me it is none of my business and I should stick to my own life.

But they have never understood who they are talking to. Of course I can and will forgive them, as they know no better.

You see, now I will have to reveal something to you in order to understand why a country thousands of mile away from me is my business:

Humans are humans. They all belong to the same specie: Humanity. Humanity is the highest developed specie on Earth. The Earth was created at the order of Almighty Powers with a central power with the purpose of giving the universe something meaningful.

Out of nothingness Big Bang occurred and the universe evolved and created the earth. It was all planned by the Almighty Powers.

The Almighty Powers calculated how earth and life on earth would evolve, and carefully planned Big Bang so it would occour in such a way, that it would create humans out of apes.

As life on earth has evolved into complexity with different questions on morality and governance, and because of these questions, still unanswered, conflicts arose. Humans had been abused by other humans. Injustice, conflicts and false beliefs made the human created societies and the human way of life go in a direction that the Almighty Powers disagree with. The Almighty Powers wants humans to be happy. But the conflicts and injustice makes people unhappy.

To solve the problems of injustice and conflicts, which inevitably will occur in such a complex environment in the universe, the life on planet Earth, a centralized governance and justice system needs to be in place.

Its purpose is to make humans realise that they are all humans. That no humans are above other humans. That humans should treat other humans apropriately. What is apropriate treatment? Only scientists knows. How should we treat criminals? On psychologists with knowledge of crime knows.

Humans must find rational and logical and scientificial answers to their questions instead of having false beliefs.

False beliefs are what goes against the scientific knowledge. Though false beliefs must be accepted as theories and should be subject to discussions as they COULD turn out to be true, but without enough scientifical evidence, they should not set the guidance system of how to treat other humans , until they have been proven to be right by scientifical knowledge.

This earth needs central governance. And I have been chosen by the Almighty Powers to establish this central governance with the purpose of bringing happiness to humanity. To abolish injustice and to stop violence in the world.

It is my responsibility to ensure that a centralized governance of the Earth is put in place and run in the way the Almighty Powers will find acceptable.

And it is your responsibility to obey my orders.

If I just stick to my own country and do not care about other countries or other humans in other parts of the world, I would be betraying humanity. And I will not betray humanity! I am here to save humanity from injustice.



Awesomelyglorious
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24 May 2007, 3:49 pm

Interesting religious beliefs.

Quote:
This earth needs central governance. And I have been chosen by the Almighty Powers to establish this central governance with the purpose of bringing happiness to humanity. To abolish injustice and to stop violence in the world.

It is my responsibility to ensure that a centralized governance of the Earth is put in place and run in the way the Almighty Powers will find acceptable.

And it is your responsibility to obey my orders.


I tend to think that more central governance will simply lead to more corruption. I also doubt that you are chosen, otherwise you would be out doing great things rather than telling random people on an internet forum.

Right, your own theocracy, got that.

My responsibility to obey your orders? Hmm.... let me think about that.... I say no. I will not obey your orders. I don't think you have been sent by any power whatsoever, and if you had been sent, I would think that your presentation would be a lot better. There are enough nuts out there without encouraging another one, you might have a good future as a cult leader though.



skafather84
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24 May 2007, 3:53 pm

Mass suicide. Oh, come on! What on Earth would we do that for?

Well: somewhere in the distant future, we might come to the conclusion that it’s the best thing to do. The only thing that makes sense. We would decide to kill ourselves -- and do it. We'd kill ourselves collectively, to the last man. We wouldn’t even leave a suicide note. After all, who would read it?

Of course, it won’t happen tomorrow. First, a lot of dramatic changes will take place to our species. Right now, we’re not too keen on dying. In fact, we hate it when we die!

But most scientists expect that over time, this will change. Slowly, we will defy death. We will beat disease after disease, and live longer and longer. We will fool the Grim Reaper with anti-ageing chemicals and fantastic, new cures.

And in the end, we will beat Death. We will need all our technological know-how to do it. In the long run, we will replace our entire bodies by technology. Already, we replace our teeth and the occasional limb that has gone missing with artificial stuff. In the near future, science expects to invent replacements for our organs. A little later, and we will be able to replace our brain by computer technology. Really! Already, some futures researchers expect that by the year 2050, we will be able to upload our mind into a computer! We will become machines -- and be immortal.

Trust us: it’s gonna be fun. When our minds have become pieces of software, we will be able to copy ourselves! We will be able to upload ourselves to... well, whatever we like. We will go out in space, in the shape of a conscious space ship. Or in the form of a purple cloud of thinking smoke particles. No, seriously! Respected scientists like Freeman Dyson and Carl Sagan already wrote about this in the 1970s.

And we will interact with each other, big time. With our biological bodies gone, we will no longer need MSN, Hyves or Myspace to get in touch with each other. Rather, our minds will start to... well, blend, actually. We will become one consciousness. Some researchers have dubbed this The Singularity, as we detail elsewhere on this site.

Ok, that sounds pretty vague -- but hey, it’s no reason to kill yourself! Well: there is this one crucial detail. Once we’re immortal, we’ll be booooooored!

To us simple, mortal humans this may be a bit hard to grasp. But once we’ve reached Perfection and Singularity and Oneness and all that blah blah, we will have no goal in life. Yes, we will go out and discover the Universe. But after a while, we will have seen it all. With our mortal bodies gone, we will have all the time of the Universe. We will know every corner of the Universe and say: so what? Why search any further? To an intelligent cloud of smoke particles, searching every corner of the Universe will make as much sense as examining every blade of grass on Earth makes to us.

So there you have it. You’ve become a God-like purple space cloud, but now you find that it is soooooo depressing.

And in fact, it’s even worse than that. Once we will become machines, our processing speed will increase hugely. Simply put, we will think bloody fast. Within a split second, we will realize that our existence, literally, has become useless. A split second later, we will realize it’s best if we didn’t exist.

To a Purple God Cloud suicide will be as self-evident as tossing away a used scrap of paper. As logical as getting off a train that has reached its final destination. And the final destination is what we will have reached: the endpoint of evolution.

Even harder to comprehend, the God Cloud won’t have any special feelings about it. When we think of suicide, we immediately think of terrible things with high buildings and shotguns. But when you're a Purple Cloud, it’s all very different. Conscious clouds don’t feel pain and have no reason to be afraid, least of all of death.

If you’re immortal, dying might seem like a fun thing to do! It will be as challenging as it is for us not to die.

So, there we go. After a long period of contemplation -- say, an entire millisecond -- we will realize we have become useless. Right there on the spot, we will kill ourselves.

And hey, you’re doing it again! You picture a purple cloud, desperately weeping, throwing itself in front of a speeding train. But it won’t be like that at all. Rather, we will terminate ourselves in some way yet beyond our imagination. We will step out of the Universe, fold ourselves up, switch ourselves off -- something like that. In a split second after we’ve reached immortality and Oneness and all that, we will be gone. Click. Puff. Exit.

The Games Alternative?

So -- is that it? Is suicide the inevitable outcome of evolution? Well, actually: there is at least one other way out. But this route is so strange and so disturbing, that it will blow your mind. For your own sake, we ask you: if you’re mentally unstable or if you have a history of psychiatric disorders, please don’t read any further. It’s at your own risk.

For what else is there to do if you’re a Super Bored Super Human? What do you do when you’re bored? Indeed: you distract yourself. You play a video game, go out, or watch TV.

Exactly this is what a superhuman intelligence may do as well. But of course, it will seek distraction in a superhuman way: it will create a new Universe, break down its intelligence into bits, and seed the new Universe with the spores of its Presence. Basically, such a ‘game’ will be a Universe that is destined to bring forth life and intelligence.

But wait a minute... Isn’t that exactly the kind of Universe we’re living in?

As we outline elsewhere on this site, it is. Scientists have noticed for long that our Universe looks chillingly artificial. The way its parameters are set, and the way it is functioning suggest that something or someone has tinkered with it. Everything we see and feel and experience - it could be an illusion! We may be part of a kind of Sims Game, played by some kind of Superhuman intelligence...

It would get weird when we reach Superhumanity again. We’d ask ourselves: "Ok, what’s it gonna be? Another game of Universe? Or should we kill ourselves now?"

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and actually i think the definition is a little off in that description. the most logical thing wouldn't simply just be suicide but rather commit suicide by design and make yourself a part of the suicide...say...like...through a big bang designed to create sentient life eventually and sustain all the things we see now.



essentially imagine the longest song ever...on repeat. that's what existence is.


you're close but looking too microscopically.....which...yeah...people who work in the micro are wrong about specific things while people in the macro are wrong in general...but...well....i'm right.



Phssthpok
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24 May 2007, 6:34 pm

I'm actually kind of surprised by the number of people who openly hate freedom. Really what it comes down to is the very viral and insidious idea that some jerkoff knows how everything should be and wants the right to enforce his or her idea of utopia on everyone else. If you hate freedom that's a perfectly legitimate point of view so what really gets me is how some people give lip service to freedom and then talk about vice taxes or some other idea meant to force people to their ideals. Freedom invariably leads to prosperity through the liberation of creative differences unlike socialism, communism and fascism.



skafather84
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24 May 2007, 6:42 pm

Phssthpok wrote:
I'm actually kind of surprised by the number of people who openly hate freedom. Really what it comes down to is the very viral and insidious idea that some jerkoff knows how everything should be and wants the right to enforce his or her idea of utopia on everyone else. If you hate freedom that's a perfectly legitimate point of view so what really gets me is how some people give lip service to freedom and then talk about vice taxes or some other idea meant to force people to their ideals. Freedom invariably leads to prosperity through the liberation of creative differences unlike socialism, communism and fascism.


with the various tyrannical, fascist, and dictatorial forms of government and religion....it's no surprise that most of humanity hates freedom.


people strive to eventually be enslaved....it's why dictators come to power....because the mandate comes from the people and they go along until they realize after a while they didn't like what happened with giving up their freedoms. then the people forget again.


the US is currently in a phase of forgetting why freedom is great and is saying all the reasons why we should give up freedom.



Phssthpok
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24 May 2007, 6:58 pm

skafather84 wrote:

with the various tyrannical, fascist, and dictatorial forms of government and religion....it's no surprise that most of humanity hates freedom.


people strive to eventually be enslaved....it's why dictators come to power....because the mandate comes from the people and they go along until they realize after a while they didn't like what happened with giving up their freedoms. then the people forget again.


the US is currently in a phase of forgetting why freedom is great and is saying all the reasons why we should give up freedom.
I agree, I wish it wasn't true but I don't think there is anything that can be done about the apathy that prosperity brings.



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24 May 2007, 10:26 pm

Phssthpok wrote:
I'm actually kind of surprised by the number of people who openly hate freedom. Really what it comes down to is the very viral and insidious idea that some jerkoff knows how everything should be and wants the right to enforce his or her idea of utopia on everyone else. If you hate freedom that's a perfectly legitimate point of view so what really gets me is how some people give lip service to freedom and then talk about vice taxes or some other idea meant to force people to their ideals. Freedom invariably leads to prosperity through the liberation of creative differences unlike socialism, communism and fascism.

I am not. Most people don't understand freedom. Freedom is what would have gotten a caveman killed. Strangely enough the nature of society has changed from one where freedom is a destructive thing to one where it is necessary.



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24 May 2007, 10:54 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I am not. Most people don't understand freedom. Freedom is what would have gotten a caveman killed. Strangely enough the nature of society has changed from one where freedom is a destructive thing to one where it is necessary.
The only thing cavemen were beholden too were the laws of the jungle and all that really means is he has to find food and not get killed. Sure today you won't starve to death but conforming to societal norms is mandatory in some cases. Some people say better red then dead other people say live free or die, I'm kind of partial to the latter.



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24 May 2007, 11:26 pm

Now I remember you Dktekno you had alot of flame wars I guess on a political forums site and you were asking a number of times for people here to come to your aid on that other site.

Anyway I guess alot aspies get obsessed with political matters and feel its their responsibility to save the world. An obsession like that will guaranteed you will not be happy and your unlikely to save the world even if you truly/objectively knew what was needed.

Snake123 had other issues nagging at him but he was also wrapped up in the same kind of saving the world obsessions and he was miserable as a result.

What you need to do is let the world crash and burn around you and be totality indifferent to it. Perhaps cook a marshmallow on a burning car instead.



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24 May 2007, 11:45 pm

Phssthpok wrote:
The only thing cavemen were beholden too were the laws of the jungle and all that really means is he has to find food and not get killed. Sure today you won't starve to death but conforming to societal norms is mandatory in some cases. Some people say better red then dead other people say live free or die, I'm kind of partial to the latter.

Cavemen were beholden to their tribes not just the laws of the jungle and the environment lived in favored a lesser approach to individual freedom due to the necessity for interdependence in a zero-sum type world. People weren't just hermits, humanity has always been a social animal. Conforming to societal norms is a lot less mandatory than it has been in the past though, we used to kill lots and lots of people for religious reasons and had caste systems. Now we have freakin' hippies! I mean, that is a lot of difference.



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25 May 2007, 12:09 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Cavemen were beholden to their tribes not just the laws of the jungle and the environment lived in favored a lesser approach to individual freedom due to the necessity for interdependence in a zero-sum type world. People weren't just hermits, humanity has always been a social animal. Conforming to societal norms is a lot less mandatory than it has been in the past though, we used to kill lots and lots of people for religious reasons and had caste systems. Now we have freakin' hippies! I mean, that is a lot of difference.
That's all true but you have to consider that back then the governments simply didn't have the means to police the everyday lives of people. They could make all the oppressive laws and taxes they wanted but there was no way to enforce them effectively. They can do that a lot better today though. Fascism in the 21st century will be a completely different animal.



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25 May 2007, 8:17 am

Phssthpok wrote:
That's all true but you have to consider that back then the governments simply didn't have the means to police the everyday lives of people. They could make all the oppressive laws and taxes they wanted but there was no way to enforce them effectively. They can do that a lot better today though. Fascism in the 21st century will be a completely different animal.

Well, it is true that enforcement was somewhat more difficult but the ability to hide things was also more difficult. If you were some rich man's serf he would want to keep a close eye on you and if you were behaving oddly it would have been everyone's business to some extent. Not only that but even imagined slights could receive punishment "he's a witch, he's a witch". Really, what I am arguing is not about the nature of modern fascism but just trying to get you to recognize that in the past this anti-freedom mentality was obvious and the way to stay alive. Unusual people were likely not really part of your tribe and would not stick by you when you needed them, a zero-sum world meant that the idea of continuous growth like we find today to be inconceivable so if your neighbor got more it meant that he was likely stealing from you, etc.