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When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatur

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GnosticBishop
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12 Jun 2017, 2:54 pm

When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Or will you seek a moral religion to replace the immoral one you now follow, if you happen to be Christian or Muslim?

Or will you let your faith hide the truth of the immorality of your God?

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

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DL



0_equals_true
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12 Jun 2017, 3:23 pm

The whole concept of an age of reason/enlightenment is iffy. Yes there have been more enlightened times and less so.

However I see morality a primarily a function of society living a large an overlapping groups and social structures and individual morality as a basis for this to evolves as society changes.

Theology is not really ethical, becuase absolute morality is not a system or theory of ethics, it is a prescribed morality.

Moral issues can be complex, therefore in an age of reason it is unlikely that religion is necessary. Since religion is not require to be an ethical person.



naturalplastic
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12 Jun 2017, 3:32 pm

What do you mean by the phrase "when you reach the age of reason"?

There was "THE Age of Reason" in history. Roughly 1750 to 1815. Also known as the "Enlightenment". The Age of Voltaire, John Locke, America's Founding Fathers (like Jefferson) etc.. An age of when reason was elevated to being of higher value than in previous centuries.

But you use the phrase in a strange way that indicates that you dont mean THAT "Age of Reason" (not a one time period of history) but seem to have conflated the phrase with something else (like "age of majority") to mean some kind of developmental phase everyone reaches when growing up, or something like that.

So...WTF are you talking about?



Cash__
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12 Jun 2017, 3:49 pm

I don't require a religion. What its founded upon is irrelevant.



GnosticBishop
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12 Jun 2017, 3:50 pm

0_equals_true wrote:
The whole concept of an age of reason/enlightenment is iffy. Yes there have been more enlightened times and less so.

However I see morality a primarily a function of society living a large an overlapping groups and social structures and individual morality as a basis for this to evolves as society changes.

Theology is not really ethical, becuase absolute morality is not a system or theory of ethics, it is a prescribed morality.

Moral issues can be complex, therefore in an age of reason it is unlikely that religion is necessary. Since religion is not require to be an ethical person.


I agree.

"Theology is not really ethical,"

Are you suggesting that the vast majority of the world that claim a religious affiliation are affiliating themselves with unethical and immoral religious creeds?

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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12 Jun 2017, 3:54 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
What do you mean by the phrase "when you reach the age of reason"?

There was "THE Age of Reason" in history. Roughly 1750 to 1815. Also known as the "Enlightenment". The Age of Voltaire, John Locke, America's Founding Fathers (like Jefferson) etc.. An age of when reason was elevated to being of higher value than in previous centuries.

But you use the phrase in a strange way that indicates that you dont mean THAT "Age of Reason" (not a one time period of history) but seem to have conflated the phrase with something else (like "age of majority") to mean some kind of developmental phase everyone reaches when growing up, or something like that.

So...WTF are you talking about?


The age of reason is the age at which children attain the use of reason and begin to have moral responsibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_(canon_law)#Age_of_Reason

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DL



GnosticBishop
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12 Jun 2017, 3:57 pm

Cash__ wrote:
I don't require a religion. What its founded upon is irrelevant.


Do unto others.

It is not irrelevant to all the victims they create.

What should you do, (overall), in terms of religion, if you are living by the Golden Rule?

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DL



0_equals_true
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12 Jun 2017, 4:16 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Are you suggesting that the vast majority of the world that claim a religious affiliation are affiliating themselves with unethical and immoral religious creeds?

Regards
DL


Kind of yes, becuase they aren't by and large great moral guides. Then may have some morally sound tenants, but these tend to get contradicted and not very nuanced compared to modern ethical positions. It is not better then encouraging people to make their own moral judgements and to study ethics itself.

In short they promote a dogmatic an arbitrary basis for morality (the deity's whims), not maturity based on an informed and reasoned position.



Lintar
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12 Jun 2017, 7:56 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
What do you mean by the phrase "when you reach the age of reason"?

There was "THE Age of Reason" in history. Roughly 1750 to 1815. Also known as the "Enlightenment". The Age of Voltaire, John Locke, America's Founding Fathers (like Jefferson) etc.. An age of when reason was elevated to being of higher value than in previous centuries.

But you use the phrase in a strange way that indicates that you dont mean THAT "Age of Reason" (not a one time period of history) but seem to have conflated the phrase with something else (like "age of majority") to mean some kind of developmental phase everyone reaches when growing up, or something like that.

So...WTF are you talking about?


The age of reason is the age at which children attain the use of reason and begin to have moral responsibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_(canon_law)#Age_of_Reason

Regards
DL


What makes you think that none of us have yet reached that age? I'm 49. Do you think I've reached it yet? I reached my 'age of reason', according to your definition, when I was 7.



Last edited by Lintar on 12 Jun 2017, 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lintar
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12 Jun 2017, 7:57 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
Cash__ wrote:
I don't require a religion. What its founded upon is irrelevant.


Do unto others.

It is not irrelevant to all the victims they create.

What should you do, (overall), in terms of religion, if you are living by the Golden Rule?

Regards
DL


You do of course realise where "Do unto others" comes from, don't you? Yes, that's right - "supernatural religion".



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12 Jun 2017, 8:07 pm

Yes, I believe I've long since passed that point (age of reason, rejecting the supernatural).


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GnosticBishop
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13 Jun 2017, 10:54 am

0_equals_true wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Are you suggesting that the vast majority of the world that claim a religious affiliation are affiliating themselves with unethical and immoral religious creeds?

Regards
DL


Kind of yes, becuase they aren't by and large great moral guides. Then may have some morally sound tenants, but these tend to get contradicted and not very nuanced compared to modern ethical positions. It is not better then encouraging people to make their own moral judgements and to study ethics itself.

In short they promote a dogmatic an arbitrary basis for morality (the deity's whims), not maturity based on an informed and reasoned position.


I agree completely.

Regards
DL



GnosticBishop
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13 Jun 2017, 10:59 am

Lintar wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
What do you mean by the phrase "when you reach the age of reason"?

There was "THE Age of Reason" in history. Roughly 1750 to 1815. Also known as the "Enlightenment". The Age of Voltaire, John Locke, America's Founding Fathers (like Jefferson) etc.. An age of when reason was elevated to being of higher value than in previous centuries.

But you use the phrase in a strange way that indicates that you dont mean THAT "Age of Reason" (not a one time period of history) but seem to have conflated the phrase with something else (like "age of majority") to mean some kind of developmental phase everyone reaches when growing up, or something like that.

So...WTF are you talking about?


The age of reason is the age at which children attain the use of reason and begin to have moral responsibility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_(canon_law)#Age_of_Reason

Regards
DL


What makes you think that none of us have yet reached that age? I'm 49. Do you think I've reached it yet? I reached my 'age of reason', according to your definition, when I was 7.


Where did I indicate in a general way that any here had not reached the age of reason?

That would be a judgement call and the O.P. asks a question and does not judge.

I judge after I get a reply so answer the question and then I will see what kind of reply I judge you to deserve.

Why are you upset at the question?

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DL



GnosticBishop
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13 Jun 2017, 11:10 am

Lintar wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
Cash__ wrote:
I don't require a religion. What its founded upon is irrelevant.


Do unto others.

It is not irrelevant to all the victims they create.

What should you do, (overall), in terms of religion, if you are living by the Golden Rule?

Regards
DL


Seems that your education has been stifled.

You do of course realise where "Do unto others" comes from, don't you? Yes, that's right - "supernatural religion".


Seems that your education has been stifled. Reciprocity rules have been around since the beginning of life on this world. They are a part of our instinct and selfish gene.

Have a look at this link and recognize that that baby is using a reciprocity rule as that is the best rule to follow to survive. That is why we have a default position of cooperation instead of competition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIc-4h9RIvY

You can believe that some supernatural force put that rule in us but I prefer to think nature did.

Regards
DL



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13 Jun 2017, 11:12 am

funeralxempire wrote:
Yes, I believe I've long since passed that point (age of reason, rejecting the supernatural).


Sweet.

Can I ask how you label yourself? Believer, non-believer etc.

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DL



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13 Jun 2017, 4:00 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Yes, I believe I've long since passed that point (age of reason, rejecting the supernatural).


Sweet.

Can I ask how you label yourself? Believer, non-believer etc.

Regards
DL


Materialist atheist, or simply a non-believer. Ultimately I don't care about the origins of the universe, life and everything; as a matter of faith I believe an understandable, materialist explanation exists whether or not I or anyone else ever understands it fully.


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They have a name for Nazis that were only Nazis because of economic anxiety or similar issues. They're called Nazis.