Austrian election outcome

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So, what do you guys think on the victory of ÖVP and Sebastian Kurz at its helm?

Admittedly I don't know enough about Austrian politics to say a lot, aside from that between Hungary, Poland, and the Czech Republic this very well could be a power-block forming in direct opposition to Merkel et. al.'s immigration policy (from a distance at least it seems to be one of the key issues that's unifying them in contrast to the rest of the EU). Optimistically, instead of Europe having the scales tipped to far-right populism for its own sake, which would be really bad, this may perhaps force a more public debate on the immigration issue and put those for and against the current system on more equal political footing. Hopefully something constructive might come from that if EU leadership is willing to resize the situation and acknowledge what's happening rather than doubling-down.

Any thoughts from central Europe on where you think this is headed?

I think its great he won, the thing about immigration is no one was ever consulted about it we never got to vote. We have politicians telling us how great Multi culturalism when its the job of the electorate to inform politicians how we feel about things not the other way round.

I don't see any problem with multiculturalism at all.

The problem is that people never voted to be foreigners in their own land, working class people don't wont to be told they are privileged because they are white. Police ignoring child rape gangs because they don't want to be called racist. Muslim terrorist attacks, Muslims wanting to vote away our rights.

It probably has less to do with multiculturalism as a concept, universally speaking, and more to do with ideological variance, quantity, throughput, and the degree to which at least boilerplate social and economic assimilation is possible.

I'm not particularly pleased with the outcome in Austria but I'm hoping that Mr. Kurz will resist the temptation to drag his nation into a socially conservative and authoritarian direction as has been the case in Poland and Hungary. The new Prime Minister in the Czech Republic is from a socially liberal, pro-EU party so they seem set to buck the trend of appeasing far-right populists that we've been seeing in other parts of Central and Eastern Europe recently.

knowing my fellow countrymen and -women, I'm expecting the worst.

Austria made a Wehrmacht officer (Kurt Waldheim) President in the 1980s, and the OVP have been in government since 1986, so I wouldn't read too much into their election results. Poland and Hungary have similar records of social conservativism. It isn't a new phenomenon.

Are you asking for your eyes to be opened or just letting us know they're shut?

The only problem with multiculturalism is that some people don't like it, but struggle to provide evidence-based support for their beliefs. We should not pander to these people.

Maybe this is what Lana Del Ray and her The Secret fan club, neopagans, and new agers should light some additional candles for after their orange ones to bind Trump - spells to make multiculturalism work and make gender a social construct. It'll be a great way to make the evil right-wingers wrong once and for all.

Evidence how about the fact that non whites are over represented in the prison system? How about Muslim rape gangs targeting poor white children? How about the sexist and homophobic attitudes they bring with them? The west isn't a better place to live because of magic soil, the west is the best place to live because of western people. Importing third world people into the first world will only make our countries more like theirs demography affects democracy.

"Pander to"?

What percentage of people who oppose multiculturalism as a political philosophy or social policy fall into the category of "struggle to provide evidence-based support"?

Even without such, how hard does one need to look to find evidence of cultures clashing?

I think at this point I feel somewhat obligated to try and offer some constructive criticism to Walrus.

Part of why I haven't addressed many of your posts for a long time and only hint at the themes obliquely as object lessons is a particular pattern I see - it's not even so much what you're saying, its one thing to be a progressive, to believe that multiculturalism is an unabated good, to believe that SJW's are almost unequivically right, or to believe that gender is purely a social construct and that evolutionary psychology is right-wing pseudoscience, but one thing that's been noticeably absent from your posts are any thorough critique or even partial critique of any of the strongest cases made by your opposition, or it's best exponents. In fact, your posts offer no hint that you've so much as listened to the other side to even understand what it is your arguing against, where you believe they're wrong, etc..

If you have been listening to people like Brett Weinstein, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris, Gad Saad, and you absolutely believe that you've eviscerated their ideas as right-wing nonsense, could you at least raise a shrunken head or trophy limb to show us that you ideologically slew them and tell us that they were simply paper-tigers waved around as authorities for people who are just too dumb, religiously obsessed, or racist to want to believe the truth?

Short of that, to just go on about the unabated good of social justice, of immigration, of the way the EU works at present, or to keep saying that gender is - if not purely a social construct - almost entirely a social construct, suggests that you have no clue what the people you disagree with are talking about, which is fine at a given moment because no one starts out really as perfect champions of Rappaport's rules for debate and most people don't come to the floor initially knowing all sides of the debate, but then to never look at or analyze the points being made on the other side after an extended length of time where people are offering links to said authors, thinkers, etc. to where it's not like you had no accessibility to find these things out for yourself - that sort of behavior tends to make people doubt a person's sincerity.

"Pander to" - we shouldn't deport foreigners just because some people don't like them. Like it or not, this is a liberal, secular, tolerant society, and we shouldn't compromise those values.

Over 90%. Naturally nobody could possibly give a precise number. But even if you were very generous with what counts as "evidence-based opposition to multiculturalism", you'd easily find nine reactionaries for every person taking an evidence-based approach.

We notice culture clashes because they are rare. We don't notice the occasions when they don't clash because they are all around us.

In any case, most people who are opposed to "multiculturalism" have nothing to say about the existence of multiple cultures. The culture of Yorkshire is very different to the culture of Cornwall. The culture of Manchester is very different to the culture of Liverpool. My culture is incredibly different to the culture of my grandparents, parents, or siblings. Some people I went to school with went to Oxbridge universities and have never had a job, others took up smoking at 14 and left school at 16. Some people have never been to a football match, some people have never been to a theatre, some people have never been to a gig. All of these cultures clash - music venues get closed down because local residents want some peace and quiet, the privileged look down on the poor, regions want more autonomy. But the anti-multiculturalism crowd don't crow about these things. "Multiculturalism" exclusively gets bashed when it promotes the culture of ethnic or religious minorities.

If you have a problem with a specific cultural practice then that's fine! Just because something is a cultural practice does not mean it is good. There's an overwhelming consensus, even among proponents of multiculturalism, that female genital mutilation is bad and that more should be done to tackle it. So is forced marriage. But er actually we're going to keep the steel-drum bands, the dance troupes, the restaurants and takeaways, the cheap convenience stores, nagar kirtan, Diwali, Eid, wrist spin, grime, and gospel choirs.

I don't think anyone is saying we should deport people, yes we are a liberal society but we are also a democracy and no one was ever consulted about multiculturalism being forced upon them, politicians love to tell us how great multiculturalism is but its not their job to tell us how we should feel but to represent out interests, according to a yougov poll 71% of people think immigration has been too high over the past ten year's and yet politicians continue to allow it to increase.