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The Difference Between The Civil War and WWII

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TwinRuler
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22 Jan 2018, 8:23 am

For what is worth, I firmly believe that the North crushed The South, during the Civil War, in order to free Black Slaves from bondage; but, I seriously doubt that either Franklin Roosevelt or Joseph Stalin ever desired to either rescue or avenge Anne Frank and the rest of The Six Million Jews, perishing in The Holocaust. No, those two were too busy sending their very own Citizens to Prison Camps, within their own Lands. Was the thing to do, back in those days. Would even go so far as to advance the argument that Roosevelt and Stalin were anti-Semites, themselves.

Now, lest others accuse me of Axis Sympathies, let me point out: the entire Second World War, in my view, was merely one great, big land grab for Allies and Axis Powers alike. It was what Stalin termed an "Imperialist War", though Stalin was an Imperialist as much as any, including Hitler himself. Never understood the phrase "Good War", as applied to The Second World War. For there was nothing good about it at all!



kraftiekortie
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22 Jan 2018, 10:16 am

The Second World War was about stemming the Nazi tide, first and foremost. And also about stemming Japanese expansionism. I believe the motivation might not have always been altruistic.

But who cares? We got rid of the Nazis, and we stemmed the Japanese tide.



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22 Jan 2018, 10:32 am

TwinRuler wrote:
For what is worth, I firmly believe that the North crushed The South, during the Civil War, in order to free Black Slaves from bondage; but, I seriously doubt that either Franklin Roosevelt or Joseph Stalin ever desired to either rescue or avenge Anne Frank and the rest of The Six Million Jews, perishing in The Holocaust. No, those two were too busy sending their very own Citizens to Prison Camps, within their own Lands. Was the thing to do, back in those days. Would even go so far as to advance the argument that Roosevelt and Stalin were anti-Semites, themselves.

Now, lest others accuse me of Axis Sympathies, let me point out: the entire Second World War, in my view, was merely one great, big land grab for Allies and Axis Powers alike. It was what Stalin termed an "Imperialist War", though Stalin was an Imperialist as much as any, including Hitler himself. Never understood the phrase "Good War", as applied to The Second World War. For there was nothing good about it at all!


In any war, not all of the participants have the same motivation.


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22 Jan 2018, 1:15 pm

TwinRuler wrote:
For what is worth, I firmly believe that the North crushed The South, during the Civil War, in order to free Black Slaves from bondage; but, I seriously doubt that either Franklin Roosevelt or Joseph Stalin ever desired to either rescue or avenge Anne Frank and the rest of The Six Million Jews, perishing in The Holocaust. No, those two were too busy sending their very own Citizens to Prison Camps, within their own Lands. Was the thing to do, back in those days. Would even go so far as to advance the argument that Roosevelt and Stalin were anti-Semites, themselves.

Now, lest others accuse me of Axis Sympathies, let me point out: the entire Second World War, in my view, was merely one great, big land grab for Allies and Axis Powers alike. It was what Stalin termed an "Imperialist War", though Stalin was an Imperialist as much as any, including Hitler himself. Never understood the phrase "Good War", as applied to The Second World War. For there was nothing good about it at all!


The North fought the Civil War mostly because it could not afford to let the South go. I mean this in a money sense.


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22 Jan 2018, 9:21 pm

RainbowUnion wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
For what is worth, I firmly believe that the North crushed The South, during the Civil War, in order to free Black Slaves from bondage; but, I seriously doubt that either Franklin Roosevelt or Joseph Stalin ever desired to either rescue or avenge Anne Frank and the rest of The Six Million Jews, perishing in The Holocaust. No, those two were too busy sending their very own Citizens to Prison Camps, within their own Lands. Was the thing to do, back in those days. Would even go so far as to advance the argument that Roosevelt and Stalin were anti-Semites, themselves.

Now, lest others accuse me of Axis Sympathies, let me point out: the entire Second World War, in my view, was merely one great, big land grab for Allies and Axis Powers alike. It was what Stalin termed an "Imperialist War", though Stalin was an Imperialist as much as any, including Hitler himself. Never understood the phrase "Good War", as applied to The Second World War. For there was nothing good about it at all!


The North fought the Civil War mostly because it could not afford to let the South go. I mean this in a money sense.


The North had no interest in seeing their country torn apart, regardless if there was an economic factor or not. But Lincoln was able to turn a war for saving the Union into a war of liberation, making it a truly noble fight.


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22 Jan 2018, 9:45 pm

TwinRuler wrote:
For what is worth, I firmly believe that the North crushed The South, during the Civil War, in order to free Black Slaves from bondage;

The north's purpose in that war was to reunite the union. Anything having to do with slaves was mostly incidental.


Quote:
but, I seriously doubt that either Franklin Roosevelt or Joseph Stalin ever desired to either rescue or avenge Anne Frank and the rest of The Six Million Jews, perishing in The Holocaust. No, those two were too busy sending their very own Citizens to Prison Camps, within their own Lands. Was the thing to do, back in those days. Would even go so far as to advance the argument that Roosevelt and Stalin were anti-Semites, themselves.

With WWII in Europe; the goal was about crushing the Axis. Liberating the camps was incidental. It may have been considered convenient for the Nazis to continue the holocaust since those efforts used up a hell of a lot of resources that otherwise would have been used for the German war effort.

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Now, lest others accuse me of Axis Sympathies, let me point out: the entire Second World War, in my view, was merely one great, big land grab for Allies and Axis Powers alike. It was what Stalin termed an "Imperialist War", though Stalin was an Imperialist as much as any, including Hitler himself. Never understood the phrase "Good War", as applied to The Second World War. For there was nothing good about it at all!

Stalin stayed in Eastern Europe so we had to stay in Western Europe.


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TwinRuler
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23 Jan 2018, 3:21 am

For a while I wondered: what about Stalin's victims? After all, were it so wrong and evil of Hitler and his Nazis to exterminate off all the millions they did, why pray tell, was it not equally wrong for Stalin and his Commies to exterminate off all the millions they did? Pondering this, I developed a phobia.

Perhaps, just perhaps, others considered Stalin's victims to be of less value, simply because most of them were Goyim (non Jews). Looking back, I know that was a silly fear of mine.



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23 Jan 2018, 3:53 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The Second World War was about stemming the Nazi tide, first and foremost. And also about stemming Japanese expansionism. I believe the motivation might not have always been altruistic.

But who cares? We got rid of the Nazis, and we stemmed the Japanese tide.


This is the nub of it.

The allies fought to defend themselves from Axis aggression.

No body even ever claims that the Allied war effort was a response TO the Holocaust.

The Axis started the war first. And THEN (after conquering Europe) the Nazis set up the machinery of the holocaust (the system of camps, and etc)afterward. And most of the victims of the Holocaust were from the occupied countries, and not from within the borders of Germany itself anyway. Hitler wouldn't have even been able to commit the subsequent crime of the Holocaust if he had not first committed the crime of military aggression. The OP has the carriage before the horse. Not saying that most German Jews and German political prisnoers weren't murdered by Hitler, I am saying that of the victims of the Holocaust only a tiny percent came from Germany itself.



TwinRuler
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23 Jan 2018, 4:01 am

What is really interesting about the Allies, the British in particular, is this: they did not carve out their vast, overseas Colonial Empire by being exactly kindhearted Pacifists either. No, they killed their way to their position of global dominance, probably exterminating off many millions on their way to Empire.



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23 Jan 2018, 6:48 am

TwinRuler wrote:
For a while I wondered: what about Stalin's victims? After all, were it so wrong and evil of Hitler and his Nazis to exterminate off all the millions they did, why pray tell, was it not equally wrong for Stalin and his Commies to exterminate off all the millions they did? Pondering this, I developed a phobia.

Perhaps, just perhaps, others considered Stalin's victims to be of less value, simply because most of them were Goyim (non Jews). Looking back, I know that was a silly fear of mine.


While the Nazis had made it a specific policy to exterminate Europe's Jewish population, the fact is, Stalin and his henchmen had actually killed more Jews than Hitler and his followers.


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23 Jan 2018, 7:49 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
For a while I wondered: what about Stalin's victims? After all, were it so wrong and evil of Hitler and his Nazis to exterminate off all the millions they did, why pray tell, was it not equally wrong for Stalin and his Commies to exterminate off all the millions they did? Pondering this, I developed a phobia.

Perhaps, just perhaps, others considered Stalin's victims to be of less value, simply because most of them were Goyim (non Jews). Looking back, I know that was a silly fear of mine.


While the Nazis had made it a specific policy to exterminate Europe's Jewish population, the fact is, Stalin and his henchmen had actually killed more Jews than Hitler and his followers.


Where did you learn that?



kraftiekortie
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23 Jan 2018, 9:57 am

Among the 30 or more million people killed under Stalin, many were Jews.

There wasn't a specific "policy" towards "exterminating the Jews" under Stalin---but, the fact is, many Jews were killed under Stalin.

I'm sure the people who died don't see the above distinction.



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23 Jan 2018, 2:35 pm

TwinRuler wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
For a while I wondered: what about Stalin's victims? After all, were it so wrong and evil of Hitler and his Nazis to exterminate off all the millions they did, why pray tell, was it not equally wrong for Stalin and his Commies to exterminate off all the millions they did? Pondering this, I developed a phobia.

Perhaps, just perhaps, others considered Stalin's victims to be of less value, simply because most of them were Goyim (non Jews). Looking back, I know that was a silly fear of mine.


While the Nazis had made it a specific policy to exterminate Europe's Jewish population, the fact is, Stalin and his henchmen had actually killed more Jews than Hitler and his followers.


Where did you learn that?


A history channel documentary on Stalin (when they still did real history), though I don't recall it's title.


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23 Jan 2018, 2:36 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Among the 30 or more million people killed under Stalin, many were Jews.

There wasn't a specific "policy" towards "exterminating the Jews" under Stalin---but, the fact is, many Jews were killed under Stalin.

I'm sure the people who died don't see the above distinction.


That's spot on correct.


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23 Jan 2018, 2:52 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Among the 30 or more million people killed under Stalin, many were Jews.

There wasn't a specific "policy" towards "exterminating the Jews" under Stalin---but, the fact is, many Jews were killed under Stalin.

I'm sure the people who died don't see the above distinction.


That's spot on correct.


I guess "Jewish Bolshevism" is a lie then.


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23 Jan 2018, 3:13 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Among the 30 or more million people killed under Stalin, many were Jews.

There wasn't a specific "policy" towards "exterminating the Jews" under Stalin---but, the fact is, many Jews were killed under Stalin.

I'm sure the people who died don't see the above distinction.


That's spot on correct.


I guess "Jewish Bolshevism" is a lie then.


Just because some Jews were Bolsheviks doesn't mean they wouldn't murder people of their own ethno-religious group. Fanatic ideologues have little concern for who constitute their victims.


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