Affirmative Action

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hfwang18
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14 Dec 2012, 9:05 pm

This is mainly a US issue, as far as I know. The original intent is to counteract former racial discrimination in schools and the workplace, therefore enforcing equal opportunity. However, controversy arises when specific racial conditions are brought in, as it then punishes members of non-underrepresented groups despite perhaps higher qualifications. What is your view on this issue? As an Asian-American, I stand to be harmed by race-based affirmative action, as I will be applying to colleges in the next few months, and think that a better form of enforcing equal opportunity is equal access to high-quality schooling and education as well as financial support for that purpose, but I am willing to hear well-reasoned arguments from either side.

YippySkippy
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14 Dec 2012, 9:38 pm

Affirmative Action = Racism

People should be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
A famous guy said something like that once, I think. :wink:

ruveyn
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14 Dec 2012, 9:40 pm

hfwang18 wrote:

Affirmative Action is politically sanctioned racism. It is nothing but a quota system based on race, ethnicity and perhaps sexual orientation.

It makes just about as much sense as the preferential hiring of blondes.

ruveyn

hfwang18
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14 Dec 2012, 9:42 pm

YippySkippy wrote:

Affirmative Action = Racism

People should be judged not by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
A famous guy said something like that once, I think. :wink:

On the other forum (NationStates) that I posted this topic on, I was bashed to no end for holding this view, and when I mentioned the quote above, they replied:

Martin Luther King Jr. wrote:

A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for him, in order to equip him to compete on a just and equal basis.

My answer was to equalize education funding and stuff, but they said that there's still so much racism that it's necessary to use a little reverse racism to "correct" the racism that everyone must have.

They do have some good evidence on their side though, as there was a study done on identical resumes with white and black names. Stereotypical black names got fewer interviews.

ruveyn
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14 Dec 2012, 9:49 pm

hfwang18 wrote:

So what. People have a right to associate with other people on whatever basis they chose.

Private Firms should be allowed to hire any the basis of conditions set by the owners or the managers they hire.

On the other hand, government should not be permitted to discriminate on any basis other than the suitability of the candidate for the job offered. Why? Because we ALL pay for government. Any unreasonable discrimination is an action against the tax payers who fund the government in the first place.

ruveyn

YippySkippy
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14 Dec 2012, 10:12 pm

Martin Luther King Jr. wrote:
A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for him, in order to equip him to compete on a just and equal basis.

Interesting. I've never heard that quote before. MLK was certainly contradicting himself, wasn't he?

Quote:

1. reverse racism = racism
2. Claiming that "everyone must have" racism is RACIST.

hfwang18
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14 Dec 2012, 10:16 pm

YippySkippy wrote:

MLK wrote:

A society that has done something special against the Negro for hundreds of years must now do something special for him, in order to equip him to compete on a just and equal basis.

Interesting. I've never heard that quote before. MLK was certainly contradicting himself, wasn't he?

It was from his book Where Do We Go from Here in 1967. He would have been a big supporter of affirmative action.

YippySkippy wrote:

1. reverse racism = racism
2. Claiming that "everyone must have" racism is RACIST.

Well, that's one of the few liberal positions that I can't stand...even if there's still plenty of racism against blacks nowadays, Tea Party and all.

Fnord
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14 Dec 2012, 10:56 pm

YippySkippy wrote:

Affirmative Action = Racism

Wrong.

Affirmative Action = Racism + Sexism

People should be judged not by the color of their skin, or by their reproductive function, but by the content of their character.

CyborgUprising
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15 Dec 2012, 11:27 am

If Affirmative Action needs to exist, it should be used to assist impoverished individuals attend colleges and give them the skills necessary to acquire employment. On second thought, whatever happened to "if you don't have the money to buy it, you can't have it?" If a shirt costs $50.00 and you only have $20.00, you simply cannot acquire the shirt (unless you steal it or use a credit card and don't mind being in debt). Enough of this giving "minorities" extra points on college entrance exams and preference for employment (this coming from a "Mixie" ).

Anyone remember that man who was giving scholarships to white males?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mqu2m9DBCE[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLHBoMeDNys[/youtube]

GGPViper
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15 Dec 2012, 11:39 am

hfwang18 wrote:

This is mainly a US issue, as far as I know.

No. I can highly recommend this book:

Affirmative Action Around the World: An Empirical Study

Singapore, for instance, was founded partly due to the failure of the Affirmative Action programme in Malaysia.

minervx
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15 Dec 2012, 11:52 am

There is no way of saying this without hurting someone's feelings.

The standards are much lower for minorities.

ruveyn
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15 Dec 2012, 12:06 pm

minervx wrote:

There is no way of saying this without hurting someone's feelings.

The standards are much lower for minorities.

Indeed which means the practice could be construed as unjust. The -excuse- made for affirmative action is to compensate people alive to day for wrongs done to their predecessors in the past by people long dead. In short the living are penalized for the deeds of the dead. Affirmative action is unjust ipso facto.

ruveyn

GGPViper
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15 Dec 2012, 12:14 pm

An example of blatant racism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmativ ... inequality

In 2005, the acceptance rate for African-Americans at Harvard was 67 percent higher than for Caucasian Americans.