Diversity is not a good thing
So, after seeing my thread title, did you assume I think then that diversity is a bad thing? Seriously, I am interested to know. Don't worry, I won't hold it against you. Because it is a subtle mental trap that is weaved by the politics of diversity.
It isn't a bad thing. It isn't a good thing. It's irrelevant.
I am really tired of seeing it championed as a good thing. Worse, a mandatory thing. It is seriously grating on me seeing its progression as it worms its way ever deeper into the fabric of our societies. I expect plenty of people don't even realise what they're doing, but as soon as you make it a good thing then you make the opposites of diversity a bad thing. Those are people who are white, male, old or straight. The more of these characteristics you have, and in order of least desirable first, none of which you have any control over, the more of a bad, undesirable person you become. It doesn't stop! It doesn't stop with something like proportional representation because it's already ingrained that white, male, straight, or old are bad things and the opposites are good things so the purging continues.
How was this allowed to happen? How did we manage to lose sight of and fail to defend the perfect principle of equal opportunity? Diversity championing is racism, sexism, ageism and whatever ism we have for discrimination based on sexual orientation.
So, I'm interested to know if you made the conclusion jump, and the answers to my questions and if there's any way we can push this mentality back. And if this post / thread snaps just one person who thinks they're doing something good out of the subtle mental trap that is diversity, then I'll be happy.
i admit i made the conclusion before i clicked the thread, but i agree with your post. it's irrelevant and we should focus on what people's abilities are and what they can do, first, not on whether they're black, gay or mexican, etc and worrying if we have enough of X people in a given group.
i don't have much else at the moment to say on this, sorry.
_________________
הייתי צוללת עכשיו למים
הכי, הכי עמוקים
לא לשמוע כלום
לא לדעת כלום
וזה הכל אהובי, זה הכל.
Since your viewpoint is very hard to tell and I don't want to judge, here's a question that could put more light on it:
Are you for, against, or neutral to the rise in diversity in Hollywood films?
For instance, there are those on the right that complained this year that films like 'Black Panther' and 'Love Simon' exist - claiming that the existence of these films and the excitement for diversity was "anti-white" and "anti-straight." These same people on the right also ridiculed minorities for celebrating that they finally got to have films about people like them, for example some black people got called "racist" by the right for saying that Black Panther was finally a hero that they could relate to because they could see themselves in the character.
Asking this particularly since whenever these right-wingers were called out - they would say they didn't care about race or sexuality, they just didn't like Hollywood "pushing" diversity (which holding that belief against Black Panther for example, but not Captain America shows a clear line of thinking). I'm not at all saying this is how you view things, but many minorities have seen people like this which makes some of us skeptical about where a person might be coming from. Thus, answering this may help to clear things up and at the same time clearly distance you from those who claim they don't care about diversity while attacking the rise in diversity at the same time.
Last edited by Spooky_Mulder on 20 Aug 2018, 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Diversity of what?
It continues to amaze me how, out of all the characteristics a person might possess, "diversity" seems to have been boiled down to mean level of melanin, genitalia and with whom one applies said genitalia. All three, I submit, contenders for being the least interesting thing about a person (generally speaking).
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I'm bored out of my skull, let's play a different game. Let's pay a visit down below and cast the world in flame.
Last edited by Wolfram87 on 20 Aug 2018, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Diversity is wired into our DNA. It provides certainty that our species will have the best possible ability to survive.
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Are you for, against, or neutral to the rise in diversity in Hollywood films?
For instance, there are those on the right that complained this year that films like 'Black Panther' and 'Love Simon' exist - claiming that the existence of these films and the excitement for diversity was "anti-white" and "anti-straight." These same people on the right also ridiculed minorities for celebrating that they finally got to have films about people like them, for example some black people got called "racist" by the right for saying that Black Panther was finally a hero that they could relate to because they could see themselves in the character.
Asking this particularly since whenever these right-wingers were called out - they would say they didn't care about race or sexuality, they just didn't like Hollywood "pushing" diversity (which holding that belief against Black Panther for example, but not Captain America shows a clear line of thinking). I'm not at all saying this is how you view things, but many minorities have seen people like this which makes some of us skeptical about where a person might be coming from. Thus, answering this may help to clear things up and at the same time clearly distance you from those who claim they don't care about diversity while attacking the rise in diversity at the same time.
I've never even heard of Love Simon. Black Panther on the other hand is pretty hard to miss. There's plenty about Black Panther and the reactions of fans of BP to BP to have me rolling my eyes and face palming, but I don't oppose the existence of Black Panther itself. And of course movie making is one of the very few places where you actually can discriminate based on arbitrary characteristics. BP is black. The people of Wakanda are black. You can't get around it. (Well you can, you could black people up, but it just makes sense to cast black people.) Anyway, I don't think there needs to be limits on creative works within reason. If you're asking do I care that the cast is full of black people, not at all. I'm not entirely sure what you wanted to know, does that suffice?
Last edited by Drake on 20 Aug 2018, 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It continues to amaze me how, out of all the characteristics a person might possess, "diversity" seems to have been boiled down to mean level of melanin, genitalia and with whom one applies said genitalia. All three, I submit, contenders for being the least interesting thing about a person (generally speaking).
Agreed.
I saw something a while ago about a black woman who thanks to a condition is being turned white. She'll eventually become 100% white. She was in a mixed state with big patches of white on her face. It's not going to change who she is inside.
Yes. You're clearly neutral rather than pretending to be, like some do.
That is actually okay. Other minorities may disagree, but I wouldn't expect white people to fully get the importance of Black Panther or straight people to fully get the importance of Love Simon. Similarly, I didn't fully get the importance that Wonder Woman had on many women because it's outside of my personal experiences. That is just to say that people are impacted more by certain things due to their own personal experiences and, personally, I don't expect others to be (as or at all) impacted because they have have different life experiences.
Hell, many minorities don't even know that they need it until they see it. For example, I'm still surprised by how much 'Call Me By Your Name' impacted me - seeing a bisexual non-stereotype protagonist and it being in theaters - was a revelation that I personally wasn't prepared for. I also kept on seeing it because it gave me the courage to come out to my extended family each time I left the theater. I didn't know that I needed a film like that and I wasn't prepared for it to impact me in the way that it did - but, from that experience I was able to understand what 'Black Panther' meant to people. Without that, to be quite honest, I don't think that I would understand it as much.
I really like the diversity in movies.
I'd stop going if every movie was a comedy like Kingpin with vulgar juvenile jokes.
Or had to feature violence and death as major plot points.
I really enjoyed Mamma Mia! Here we go again and Crazy Rich Asians
as a welcome relief to "mainstream" Hollywood films.
Both have done well at the box office.
Diversity is having people of many different beliefs, cultures, and races in leadership, management and staff.
Exploitation is touting a movie as being important only because it features an all-female production staff, an all-minority cast, and an LGBT-Q actor in a lead role -- never mind about the plot, it's the diversity that counts.
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Exploitation is touting a movie as being important only because it features an all-female production staff, an all-minority cast, and an LGBT-Q actor in a lead role -- never mind about the plot, it's the diversity that counts.
Another example that liberals don't see is "GBF." Personally, I and many lgbtq people find the notion of a "GBF" to be offensive since it relies on stereotypes: the magical "gay best friend" for girls - a guy that will talk fashion, decorating, and support them with their dating boys angst. Reality is lgbtq guys aren't always flamboyant (and there are straight flamboyant guys), many of us know nothing about fashion or decorating, and we don't want to be commodities that girls look to "collect."
That's the root that discrimination takes the form in on the left. Right-wing typically shows bigotry, left-wing typically shows wanting to "collect" us - the above paragraph is basically what black people experience as well, film 'Get Out' dives into this. Tokenism.
Film-wise, examples would be "Dumbledore is gay! ... but he won't ever act on it in the film," "Lando Calrissian is bisexual! ... but he won't ever act on it the film," "Beauty and the Beast has a new gay character ... but it will never explicitly be shown or stated," then "come see it lgbtq people for representation!" That's not representation, that's baiting.
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