Should parents have the rights to change kids' genders?

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ironpony
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25 Oct 2018, 5:14 pm

asically I came about it in a conversation with some people and then looked it up, in this article:

https://embryo.asu.edu/pages/david-reim ... njoan-case

So after researching the case, I actually found it to be really heartbreaking but also very twisted. I mean what parents would do that to their child, just because a an obviously questionable psychologist tells them it's the best idea?

Anyway, later on, after the kid found out the truth in his teens, he decides that he wants to be a male again, and has his penis surgically reconstructed. But here is what I don't understand. Why didn't the parents just have their child's penis reconstructed in the first place?

It seems to me that is a much more logical idea, when it comes to a penis being damaged, rather than turning your whole child into a female. I mean that is so insanely illogical and is going to cause so many more problems, compared to the penis reconstruction.

Also, why did the parents favor turning their child into a girl compared to penis reconstruction? They must have had some sort of ulterior motives for turning their child into a girl. I cannot see the psychologists advice being the sole reason. Did they want a girl in the first place or something?

It just seems that something is missing with this whole story, or something doesn't gel in the parents minds. But what do you think?

But I feel that the parents got way too ahead of themselves, and were perhaps playing God, and got too carried away over this, which is why it came to a tragic end. So why are parents allowed to do this on a child, instead of wait for the child to make their own decisions, of an older age, on it?



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25 Oct 2018, 7:49 pm

With abortions being performed on the basis of amniotic testing for sex, the aforementioned article neither surprises nor amazes me in the least.



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25 Oct 2018, 9:31 pm

The doctor sounds like Dr. Mengele.

-He encouraged the parents to change the boy into a girl.
-He made the girl (really a boy) have simulated sexual intercourse with his twin brother.


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ironpony
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25 Oct 2018, 10:42 pm

Yeah I'm just surprised the parents didn't think this doctor was a not, and didn't try to get any second opinions before jumping in blind like this.



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26 Oct 2018, 8:57 am

Cases like this are why I scoff when people claim that doctors, instead of the individuals themselves. should be in charge of determining someone's gender.


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26 Oct 2018, 11:33 am

His story is proof right there that there is indeed a male and female brain. You cannot change the gender but you can change the body.


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ironpony
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26 Oct 2018, 7:47 pm

But why are parents allowed to make that decision? I mean we have age of consent laws to protect kids, yet they are totally allowed to have their genitalia decided for them without their consent. Is that not hypocritical?



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26 Oct 2018, 8:15 pm

ironpony wrote:
But why are parents allowed to make that decision? I mean we have age of consent laws to protect kids, yet they are totally allowed to have their genitalia decided for them without their consent. Is that not hypocritical?

Oddly enough the same people who argue for this argue changing a babies diaper without consent is rape. Yet they think you should be able to have the babies gender changed without its consent



funeralxempire
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26 Oct 2018, 8:49 pm

sly279 wrote:
ironpony wrote:
But why are parents allowed to make that decision? I mean we have age of consent laws to protect kids, yet they are totally allowed to have their genitalia decided for them without their consent. Is that not hypocritical?

Oddly enough the same people who argue for this argue changing a babies diaper without consent is rape. Yet they think you should be able to have the babies gender changed without its consent


I find it unlikely that this guy has a problem with changing a baby's diaper without consent. :?


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ironpony
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27 Oct 2018, 1:04 pm

I think that changing a baby's diaper is hugely different than cutting off a baby's genitalia and manufacturing a synthetic opposite gender genitalia for the baby. Huge difference. The latter is much much more invasive, and much more physically and psychologically altering.



The_Walrus
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27 Oct 2018, 1:44 pm

Individuals should have the absolute right to determine their own gender.



shlaifu
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27 Oct 2018, 5:01 pm

hmm... it was the 60s, though.
It's likely they didn't know how to reconstuct a penis back then ... after all, they botched a circumcision, which, as you may know, the Jewish people has been succeeding at for something like 5000 years.
and then thought, the best thing to do was what they did with intersex people, at the time.

I'm not trying to defend anything, I'm rather trying to frame this as a tragic story of stupidity and barbarism in a bygone era. - all the more reason for progress in this area.


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ironpony
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27 Oct 2018, 5:32 pm

Well what puzzles me about it, is why the parents thought their child would pass as a girl. I read more of the story and he was bullied in school for it, and it seemed the other kids thought that something was off.

I just wondered why the parents thought it would work, cause switching out one body part, still means that the rest of the body is going to be male. People are going to be able to tell. So it may sound like it's a solution that would work if you lived in a fantasy land with fantasy technology. Maybe Q from James Bond could make it work, but what made the parents think this would likely pass in real life?



ironpony
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27 Oct 2018, 7:53 pm

I looked it up and the first woman to receive penis reconstruction was in 1946 it seems. So it seems the technology was there in 1965 therefore, and then therefore, was an option, unless I am wrong?



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27 Oct 2018, 8:09 pm

ironpony wrote:
Well what puzzles me about it, is why the parents thought their child would pass as a girl. I read more of the story and he was bullied in school for it, and it seemed the other kids thought that something was off.

I just wondered why the parents thought it would work, cause switching out one body part, still means that the rest of the body is going to be male. People are going to be able to tell. So it may sound like it's a solution that would work if you lived in a fantasy land with fantasy technology. Maybe Q from James Bond could make it work, but what made the parents think this would likely pass in real life?

They put him on estrogen at age 13.

He would easily "pass" as a girl.

Image


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ironpony
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28 Oct 2018, 2:17 am

Yeah I guess...

So when it comes to gender reassignment, out of curiosity, is the synthetic private parts so good that people cannot tell, or could a person tell if had experience in that area?

Like could a woman tell the difference between a real penis, if she has had a few, compared to a gender reassignment penis that has been surgically placed on? Could a man tell if it was a real vagina or not, if had some past experience down there?