The Quran explicitly states that Israel belongs to the Jews.

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Isn't it ironic?



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YUSUFALI: Remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin." Sūra V.: Māïda, or The Table Spread.

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YUSUFALI: And We made a people, considered weak (and of no account), inheritors of lands in both east and west, - lands whereon We sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We levelled to the ground the great works and fine buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected (with such pride). Sūra VII.: A’rāf, or the Heights

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YUSUFALI: And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd. Sūra XVII.: Banī Isrā-īl, or the Children of Israel,

Are those early bits or later bits? Because it also says that the jews are "people of the book" who are "recipients of an earlier revelation" and to be respected as such, but then goes "JK kill them all".

I still feel we should have a 2-State solution. This is 2018, not 1200 BC or whatever.

The first verse says that Moses told his followers not to retreat to Egypt because we are going to get to the promised land. Just reiterating the Bible. But is that the same thing as saying "therefore the Jews have a right to a state located in that same promised land today". "Today" meaning either the Seventh century AD when the Koran was written or...today today (2018)? It just sounds some kind of literary reference as a metaphor for something else.

The second verse takes some time to decipher ANY meaning from at all in my opinion. Its a head scratcher.

But it seems to be saying that the Jews were downtrodden and humble folks, and the Egyptians were powerful and full of vainglory. And that's why those vain old Egyptians got their fine monuments destroyed and why the steadfastly pious Jews get a real estate inheritance. So far so good. Except it says "land(s)" plural, and not "a land". And it says they inherit lands "east and west". It sounds like it saying that the Jews are entitled to little parcels of land scattered all over the world "east and west" ( Europe and the Middle east?), and not that they get some one big chunk of land at a particular place on the shores of the eastern Mediterranean. So I don't know what theyre talking about there.

The last verse seems to be saying what you claim that its saying, that being that "the Jews can live securely in the promised land" and that they can do so until "the second warning" which I interpreted to mean what Christians call "the judgement day". The "first warning" would be the flood of noah. So this "second warning" must be the Muslim idiom for the coming day of judgment. Or so I assumed. So the Jews can live in Israel until judgment day (for ever for all practical purposes). Sounds pretty convincing.

But upon closer examination you notice that it talks about this "second of warnings" in the PAST tense.


"When the second of warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd".

So apparently this second warning thing was a past event (either mythical or historical) that had already supposedly happened prior to the writing of the Koran in the Seventh Century, and thus has nothing to do with any future prophesy (judgement day nor anything else). It seems to be saying that the Jews in Israel were already scooped up by the hand of God and into "a mingled crowd" - mingled Jews and Gentiles. So it could be interpreted as meaning that "the Jews had their own country for a while, but then God saw fit to mingle them with the gentiles by scattering them around". The exact opposite of endorsing modern Zionism.

All three are rather ambiguous passages.

and totally adaptable to contemporary life. and if 1000000 years ago my great great grand monkey lived in a cave it is safe to say that belongs to me now and if the cave has been replaced by a house, f**k that, I'll ask the military to help me evict everyone and regain my cave.

It is often said that the events of Exodus took place during the reign of Ramses II, which was sometime in the 13th century BC.

Obviously the Koran was, supposedly, dictated to The Prophet Mohammed by Allah about 630 AD or so.

And recent finds by Israeli archeologists working in Egypt points overwhelmingly to the Israelites never being kept as slaves in Egypt at all, casting a whole new dimension of dubiousness over the whole affair.

I guess I should look into this....

You know what,
What is historical fact fact at all? Are treaties, documents really worth the paper they are written on?
Are the great religious books not translated and re translated according to the politics prevailing at the time of publication?

In other words in this era of totally `in your face` fake news, and barefaced lying.
Do we really think we can get any purchase from disputing ancient books by Mohammed or Moses or Charlie Brown?... Surely it, doesn`t mean anything nowadays just a piece of paper, an excuse for the powers to wage war over.
Let it go and let people live with people without religion messing it all up.. I am tired of all this pettiness.

But, back to the Koran.

Do you Boo, or anyone here, know what the heck the "second warning" means?

And what was "the First Warning"?

All that matters is who has the land now and been on it recently not who had it in the past.

Kicking generations of Jews from the only place they known isn’t a solution.
Palasitne needs to accept what they have now or lose more of it. Generally speaking wars lead to the victor getting mor land as compensation.

Should Germany get Prussia back?
They lost Prussia same time this whole Israel Palestine thing happen.
Palestine is just like North Korea never wanting to let go of united Korea under Kim.
It isn’t every going happen for either of them, and Germany won’t get Prussia back. Prussia is gone it’s not Prussia anymore. It wasn’t fair what happen to Prussia but it happen long time ago, people live there now who aren’t Germans, the Germans who lived there were sent to Germany or killed, either way most of them are dead now generations later.

It’s like China claiming they own The Whole oceans cause they did in ancient times.