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VegetableMan
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28 May 2019, 11:57 am

A touchy topic, indeed. The idea being promoted that there are 71 different genders, and that gender is a"social construct" is simply not backed up by legitimate science or biology. However, fear of being labeled trans-phobic frequently shuts down the conversation. It's no longer about rights; rather it's about control. How did we arrive at the point where progressive became repressive?


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TwilightPrincess
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28 May 2019, 12:03 pm

The idea is that one’s biological sex does not always equal one’s gender. A lot of gender norms are socially constructed: girls having long hair, preferring pink, wearing dresses, and things of that sort.

Gender is thought of as being on a spectrum with feminine on one end and masculine on the other (both states are defined by one’s culture).



CockneyRebel
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28 May 2019, 12:11 pm

I think that gender is a social construct. I think that it's impossible to squeeze the population of the world into two little boxes. I know that I don't like being put into a little box. I'm just glad that these aren't the 1800s. I would have never been able to survive the 1800s. I'm an F to M without the transition because I'll never be able to afford something that great in my life. I use a marker instead. My trans marker comes in the form of a toy or cloth German helmet. That's because a German helmet is the most masculine thing I've ever seen.

I'm also so fat that most strangers can't tell my birth gender anyways, which is a good thing for me.


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VegetableMan
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28 May 2019, 12:17 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
The idea is that one’s biological sex does not always equal one’s gender. A lot of gender norms are socially constructed: girls having long hair, preferring pink, wearing dresses, and things of that sort.

Gender is thought of as being on a spectrum with feminine on one end and masculine on the other (both states are defined by one’s culture).


I have no problem with how people want to view themselves, whether is male or female. That still doesn't negate that fact that from a biological standpoint, there are only two genders. People can believe whatever they want. But the point of this talk is to address how a certain agenda is being shoved down people's throats under the guise of tolerance and personal rights. For instance, should we intact a law that allows a man who identifies with being a woman to walk into a woman's locker room? This is quite troublesome, I think.


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CockneyRebel
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28 May 2019, 12:25 pm

I think that people should be able to use which ever wash rooms or locker rooms they like. I also think that people of both genders should wear what they want if it's a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing a war helmet as casual wear.


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TwilightPrincess
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28 May 2019, 12:30 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
The idea is that one’s biological sex does not always equal one’s gender. A lot of gender norms are socially constructed: girls having long hair, preferring pink, wearing dresses, and things of that sort.

Gender is thought of as being on a spectrum with feminine on one end and masculine on the other (both states are defined by one’s culture).


I have no problem with how people want to view themselves, whether is male or female. That still doesn't negate that fact that from a biological standpoint, there are only two genders. People can believe whatever they want. But the point of this talk is to address how a certain agenda is being shoved down people's throats under the guise of tolerance and personal rights. For instance, should we intact a law that allows a man who identifies with being a woman to walk into a woman's locker room? This is quite troublesome, I think.


There are two sexes but not two genders. I watched the video and she doesn’t adequately address the differences between sex and gender. She kept on saying gender when she was actually talking about sex. Biological sex is more than just basic anatomy. It would also include hormonal differences and differences in brain structure as well.

Gender is a social construct.

I don’t like changing in locker rooms. I haven’t heard a lot of trouble on the news about men preying on women under this guise.



VegetableMan
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28 May 2019, 12:46 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
The idea is that one’s biological sex does not always equal one’s gender. A lot of gender norms are socially constructed: girls having long hair, preferring pink, wearing dresses, and things of that sort.

Gender is thought of as being on a spectrum with feminine on one end and masculine on the other (both states are defined by one’s culture).


I have no problem with how people want to view themselves, whether is male or female. That still doesn't negate that fact that from a biological standpoint, there are only two genders. People can believe whatever they want. But the point of this talk is to address how a certain agenda is being shoved down people's throats under the guise of tolerance and personal rights. For instance, should we intact a law that allows a man who identifies with being a woman to walk into a woman's locker room? This is quite troublesome, I think.


There are two sexes but not two genders. I watched the video and she doesn’t adequately address the differences between sex and gender. She kept on saying gender when she was actually talking about sex. Biological sex is more than just basic anatomy. It would also include hormonal differences and things of that nature as well.

Gender is a social construct.

I don’t like changing in locker rooms. I haven’t heard a lot of trouble on the news about men preying on women under this guise.


Language is organic, it changes through time. I'm seeing the same thing when I look at modern definitions of ''gender" as opposed to what was generally accepted many years ago.

I would agree that, perhaps, gender can be seen as a spectrum -- to a degree. But the narrative being driven is unsettling when it is being forced down people's throats.


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28 May 2019, 12:47 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I think that people should be able to use which ever wash rooms or locker rooms they like. I also think that people of both genders should wear what they want if it's a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing a war helmet as casual wear.


So, if a woman is uncomfortable with sharing a locker room with a swinging dick, she should have no right to object?


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TwilightPrincess
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28 May 2019, 12:50 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
The idea is that one’s biological sex does not always equal one’s gender. A lot of gender norms are socially constructed: girls having long hair, preferring pink, wearing dresses, and things of that sort.

Gender is thought of as being on a spectrum with feminine on one end and masculine on the other (both states are defined by one’s culture).


I have no problem with how people want to view themselves, whether is male or female. That still doesn't negate that fact that from a biological standpoint, there are only two genders. People can believe whatever they want. But the point of this talk is to address how a certain agenda is being shoved down people's throats under the guise of tolerance and personal rights. For instance, should we intact a law that allows a man who identifies with being a woman to walk into a woman's locker room? This is quite troublesome, I think.


There are two sexes but not two genders. I watched the video and she doesn’t adequately address the differences between sex and gender. She kept on saying gender when she was actually talking about sex. Biological sex is more than just basic anatomy. It would also include hormonal differences and things of that nature as well.

Gender is a social construct.

I don’t like changing in locker rooms. I haven’t heard a lot of trouble on the news about men preying on women under this guise.


Language is organic, it changes through time. I'm seeing the same thing when I look at modern definitions of ''gender" as opposed to what was generally accepted many years ago.

I would agree that, perhaps, gender can be seen as a spectrum -- to a degree. But the narrative being driven is unsettling when it is being forced down people's throats.


It’s never been forced down my throat, but I live in a very conservative area.

I found the portion of the video where she was laughing at people in nonconforming categories even more unsettling. It was distasteful and made me a little nauseous. I’m far more concerned about people pushing her agenda than the current state of things.

The words “sex” and “gender” should have separate meanings and nuances. Two people can be biologically female, but that doesn’t necessarily describe who they are. We could have an ultra feminine girly girl (nothing wrong with that!) and one biological female rocking a crew cut and men’s clothes (nothing wrong with that!), and they’d both be in the same category. There are limitless notches in the spectrum between these two extremes.

Why do we need to put people into boxes that are unhelpful and inadequate?



Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 28 May 2019, 1:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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28 May 2019, 12:51 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I think that people should be able to use which ever wash rooms or locker rooms they like. I also think that people of both genders should wear what they want if it's a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing a war helmet as casual wear.


So, if a woman is uncomfortable with sharing a locker room with a swinging dick, she should have no right to object?


People should be able to change in individual stalls if this would make them uncomfortable. I’ve never changed openly in a locker room.



VegetableMan
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28 May 2019, 1:01 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I think that people should be able to use which ever wash rooms or locker rooms they like. I also think that people of both genders should wear what they want if it's a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing a war helmet as casual wear.


So, if a woman is uncomfortable with sharing a locker room with a swinging dick, she should have no right to object?


People should be able to change in individual stalls if this would make them uncomfortable. I’ve never changed openly in a locker room.


Some people might be uncomfortable, regardless of the availability of stalls. If we agree that there is a difference between gender and biological sex, wouldn't it be fair to prohibit a man from entering a woman's locker room?


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28 May 2019, 1:02 pm

This debate about gender being a social construct or not is silly and I will respond with the seriousness it deserves: Image


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28 May 2019, 1:04 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I think that people should be able to use which ever wash rooms or locker rooms they like. I also think that people of both genders should wear what they want if it's a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing a war helmet as casual wear.


So, if a woman is uncomfortable with sharing a locker room with a swinging dick, she should have no right to object?


People should be able to change in individual stalls if this would make them uncomfortable. I’ve never changed openly in a locker room.


Most locker rooms I've been to haven't had individual stalls, same with shower rooms...



TwilightPrincess
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28 May 2019, 1:07 pm

Fireblossom wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I think that people should be able to use which ever wash rooms or locker rooms they like. I also think that people of both genders should wear what they want if it's a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing a war helmet as casual wear.


So, if a woman is uncomfortable with sharing a locker room with a swinging dick, she should have no right to object?


People should be able to change in individual stalls if this would make them uncomfortable. I’ve never changed openly in a locker room.


Most locker rooms I've been to haven't had individual stalls, same with shower rooms...


I guess I’ve been lucky. I have changed in bathrooms, but most places I’ve been have had individual stalls.



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28 May 2019, 1:10 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Fireblossom wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
I think that people should be able to use which ever wash rooms or locker rooms they like. I also think that people of both genders should wear what they want if it's a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing a war helmet as casual wear.


So, if a woman is uncomfortable with sharing a locker room with a swinging dick, she should have no right to object?


People should be able to change in individual stalls if this would make them uncomfortable. I’ve never changed openly in a locker room.


Most locker rooms I've been to haven't had individual stalls, same with shower rooms...


I guess I’ve been lucky. I have changed in bathrooms, but most places I’ve been have had individual stalls.


Probably more of a culture difference than luck; I've heard that many Americans are shocked when they see how open the shower spaces and such are in swimming halls and the like here.



shortfatbalduglyman
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28 May 2019, 2:15 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
I think that people should be able to use which ever wash rooms or locker rooms they like. I also think that people of both genders should wear what they want if it's a man wearing a dress or a woman wearing a war helmet as casual wear.



The problem is that it still says "men's" and "women's" locker room on the door

It should say "men and ftm and mtf"

Or coed locker room

The men's bathroom often has fewer toilets than the women's

When I go to the men's bathroom, I have to wait for a man to bowel movement, so I can urinate

Because I am a woman

When I go to the women's bathroom, women tell me that you are in the wrong bathroom

Even in Berkeley 2019, few bathrooms are coed


Some bathrooms say "gender neutral bathroom", but there is only one toilet


If I have to take a bowel movement, then there is someone pounding on the door



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