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beneficii
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02 Feb 2020, 11:48 am

I thought this was an interesting discussion of the conflicting interests in the Democratic Party:

https://jacobinmag.com/2020/02/rashida- ... ablishment

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Many on the Left leapt at the opportunity to point out that Clinton’s interventions themselves had sown division and inflamed tensions in the Democratic Party. They correctly observed that centrists who call for party unity are often perfectly content to openly denigrate, dismiss, and actively disempower the Left. “Who’s posing the bigger threat to party unity?” some asked.

It’s satisfying to highlight centrist hypocrisy. But the Left should proceed with caution around the question of party unity. If we elevate it uncritically, we risk missing something crucial: all the conflict we’re experiencing now is actually an inevitable result of the class structure of the Democratic Party itself, which makes unity neither possible nor, from the socialist perspective, desirable.

The Democratic Party represents Blue Cross and people whose medical claims are denied by Blue Cross. It represents Blackstone and people evicted by Blackstone. The Democratic Party represents banks that foreclose on homes, while also claiming to represent people struggling to pay their mortgages. It represents corporate polluters, while also professing to represent working-class children who are at risk of developing asthma from corporate pollution. When the side that has more money and structural power in the economy pursues its own interests, it does so at the expense of the side with less money and power.

The party is a powder keg of class conflict.

Viewed in this light, the tension we’re witnessing now is healthy. The disunity on display is a sign that the pro-capitalist Democratic Party establishment is currently facing a credible challenge, and the dominance of corporate interests is being called into question.

There are different schools of thought on the Left about how to navigate this contradiction within the Democratic Party — that is, whether the capitalist elements can ever be subdued enough for the party to genuinely represent the interests of the working class. Whatever conclusion we may reach on that question, the undeniable truth is that so long as opposing interests are present in the party, the party is not unifiable.


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02 Feb 2020, 11:57 am

beneficii wrote:
The idea of unity in the Democratic Party...


Image


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04 Feb 2020, 1:27 am

The late Will Rogers once said: "I don't belong to any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."


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04 Feb 2020, 1:45 am

One thing I'd suggest that the article missed would be:

They are a party of division, seeking to place people in small groups ("Black Democrats", "Hispanic Democrats",...) and emphasizing differences, rather than trying to consolidate ("Democrats") and emphasize common factors between these groups.

It's when people (and sub-groups) stop compromising and instead put their needs above the overall organistion's welfare that these sort of problems occur. Without common ground, it degenerates into a "dog eat dog" situation, tearing the organisation apart.

This can be seen in the unified approach the Republicans seem to have...They may not necessarily LIKE all the policies their party has, but it's better to have some/most of what they want (and maybe a little they don't want) than to have very little\nothing they want.

Of course, this is from an Australian, and so is based on what information makes its way out of the USA in the news, etc. and so may be wildly inaccurate/incorrect.



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04 Feb 2020, 2:17 am

They're united in their hatred of Trump.


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04 Feb 2020, 2:34 am

TheRobotLives wrote:
They're united in their hatred of Trump.


Only because Trump made himself so easy to hate.


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ASPartOfMe
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04 Feb 2020, 4:51 am

Will the voters of the losing candidates vote for a person they believe rigged the nomination, will have bad policies as President, and in general is a disgusting person because Trump is worse, or will they vote for a third party candidate or stay home? That is the million dollar question, the elephant the room or whatever cliche you desire.

Because as loathed as Trump is as part of the primary process feelings will be hurt, the urge to attack with a greater attack will be hard to resist.

Obviously what is happening in Iowa is a horrible start.


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04 Feb 2020, 5:51 am

the party on the national level can't survive another loss to trump, it will split along its cultural fault lines, i am fairly confident of this.



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04 Feb 2020, 7:37 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Will the voters of the losing candidates vote for a person they believe rigged the nomination, will have bad policies as President, and in general is a disgusting person because Trump is worse, or will they vote for a third party candidate or stay home? That is the million dollar question, the elephant the room or whatever cliche you desire.

Because as loathed as Trump is as part of the primary process feelings will be hurt, the urge to attack with a greater attack will be hard to resist.

Obviously what is happening in Iowa is a horrible start.


Exactly. I don't personally know any Bernie supporters, but if the ones I read about, see on social media or the internet are typical in their fervor for him, I would have a hard time seeing them fall lock step behind a democratic candidate if Bernie isn't the candidate due to internal party shenanigans twice over. I think it would be reasonable to assume at least some of Bernie's supporters, if that happens, would want to see the Democratic party implode.



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04 Feb 2020, 7:46 am

"I am a member of NO...ORGANIZED...political party!
I'm a Democrat".

Will Rogers circa 1928







"Not only has the entire civilized World degenerated in the last eight weeks, but so has the Democratic Party!"

Mayor Richard Daley (D) of Chicago. 1968



aghogday
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04 Feb 2020, 12:10 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGZMvV9KBp8

In Regard to the Idea of Unity in The Democratic Party;
Now, i suppose it could be worse; the Democratic Party
Might Other Wise Always Be United Even for 'A Father of All Lies';
But of Course that is How 'Conservative Group Think Religious Politics Works'; Less Open-Minded;
It's all Part of Human Nature; Some Folks Bond and Bind over Group Think More than Others Do.
The Fact that the Democratic Party is Diffuse and Divided is the Nature of 'the Beast' When it becomes
Elected the
First Time or
Second Time too.
The Republican Party is the Minority
Party in Percentage of Numbers; But the
Difference is the Cohesiveness that comes When
Religion and Politics Becomes the Force of 'Hairless Apes' Stronger together (They Vote);
How Do You Accommodate This; You Do Not; It's Human Nature; And It's Reality too.
If You're 'Really
SmART' 'in Rome'
You Follow the Rules
only enough to make Your own;
But of Course This is a very Open
Mind And Body Soul in Balance Dancing Singing FREE.
With Freedom; Truly With Freedom This Doesn't Matter at all until Freedom is GONE.

It's all about getting out to Vote when the 'Finals are Set'.
There won't be much Open Minded/Bodied Activities Going on if Freedom Leaves.

The Solution is Simple; More Democrats Vote; And Then Trump Goes away or not;
i for one Will Vote; That's the Only Voice We Have that counts; if 'the counter' is working correctly at least.

Meh; a lot of People Just don't care; eventually they may have no choice, when it is all too late to change it with care.

There is Positive Human Social Contagion in Empathy That Binds and Bonds over Truth.

It Works the Same, Negatively; Most Unfortunately, for Bold Face Lies too As HiStory continues...

The Last Dictator Speech comes to mind by Charlie Chaplin in Regard to this; It's about Charisma;
It's all About Inspiration; It's all about Getting Our Butt Up and Voting for Our Freedom to continue.


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04 Feb 2020, 7:35 pm

The corporate Dems would much rather see Trump win a second term than somebody like Sanders or Gabbard win the nomination. Maintaining the status quo is just f*****g fine with them. Nancy Pelosi is worth over 100 million dollars. You don't get that rich by serving the American people.

There ain't gonna be any unity in the Democratic Party. The very idea is utterly absurd!


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04 Feb 2020, 9:07 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
The corporate Dems would much rather see Trump win a second term than somebody like Sanders or Gabbard win the nomination. Maintaining the status quo is just f*****g fine with them. Nancy Pelosi is worth over 100 million dollars. You don't get that rich by serving the American people.

There ain't gonna be any unity in the Democratic Party. The very idea is utterly absurd!


Says who? And if either got the nomination, would you vote for him or her?


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04 Feb 2020, 10:12 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
The corporate Dems would much rather see Trump win a second term than somebody like Sanders or Gabbard win the nomination. Maintaining the status quo is just f*****g fine with them. Nancy Pelosi is worth over 100 million dollars. You don't get that rich by serving the American people.

There ain't gonna be any unity in the Democratic Party. The very idea is utterly absurd!


Says who? And if either got the nomination, would you vote for him or her?


Says me. Did I attribute my comment to someone else? I'm certainly not alone, here. Anybody who doesn't filter reality through a partisan lens can see what's going on. What don't you understand about I said? It all seems pretty easy to grasp.

I'd vote for Gabbard, but not for Sanders. I lost respect for him in 2016 when he endorsed Hillary. He's sold out.


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05 Feb 2020, 12:27 am

VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
The corporate Dems would much rather see Trump win a second term than somebody like Sanders or Gabbard win the nomination. Maintaining the status quo is just f*****g fine with them. Nancy Pelosi is worth over 100 million dollars. You don't get that rich by serving the American people.

There ain't gonna be any unity in the Democratic Party. The very idea is utterly absurd!


Says who? And if either got the nomination, would you vote for him or her?


Says me. Did I attribute my comment to someone else? I'm certainly not alone, here. Anybody who doesn't filter reality through a partisan lens can see what's going on. What don't you understand about I said? It all seems pretty easy to grasp.

I'd vote for Gabbard, but not for Sanders. I lost respect for him in 2016 when he endorsed Hillary. He's sold out.


He didn't sell out; he understood that Clinton would have made a better President than that shaved Orangutan.
None of the Democratic leadership is in any way supportive of Trump. What evidence is there that they are?


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05 Feb 2020, 11:25 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
The corporate Dems would much rather see Trump win a second term than somebody like Sanders or Gabbard win the nomination. Maintaining the status quo is just f*****g fine with them. Nancy Pelosi is worth over 100 million dollars. You don't get that rich by serving the American people.

There ain't gonna be any unity in the Democratic Party. The very idea is utterly absurd!


Says who? And if either got the nomination, would you vote for him or her?


Says me. Did I attribute my comment to someone else? I'm certainly not alone, here. Anybody who doesn't filter reality through a partisan lens can see what's going on. What don't you understand about I said? It all seems pretty easy to grasp.

I'd vote for Gabbard, but not for Sanders. I lost respect for him in 2016 when he endorsed Hillary. He's sold out.


He didn't sell out; he understood that Clinton would have made a better President than that shaved Orangutan.
None of the Democratic leadership is in any way supportive of Trump. What evidence is there that they are?


If Sanders really belived in what he was preaching, he would have left the party and continued the crusade. You can't speak out against corruption, then endorse a candidate who embodies everything you've been talking about.

The Dems have been very supportive of Trump, actually, despite the theater that goes on between the parties in Congress, designed to perpetuate the political divide. They've given in to Trump at every turn.


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