Noam Chomsky: Bernie's Campaign Didn't Fail

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RushKing
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Fnord
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09 Apr 2020, 3:13 pm

The poor fellow ... he's in denial!

@01:37 -- "It's common to say now that the sanders campaign failed.  I think that's a mistake.  I think it was an extraordinary success!"

Sanders did not win enough delegates to secure the nomination. Plain and simple.

There is no moral victory without total victory.


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TheRobotLives
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09 Apr 2020, 3:43 pm

Sanders won.

Everyone is on the government dole now.

Just in 1 month ...
2.3 trillion city & state loans (Announced today)
More stimulus checks (Announced today)
4 trillion for FED business liquidity loans
2.2 trillion for phase 1 stimulus
300 billion for phase 2 stimulus
1 trillion for phase 3 stimulus
1 trillion for phase 4 stimulus
250 billion more for small business add-on
2 Trillion bill for infrastructure (TRUMP proposal)

This sets a precedent that money is available for "FREE Stuff".


Student debt forgiveness is merely 1.7 trillion ...
Free public college is merely -- I don't know -- 100 Billion
Medical expansion is merely -- I don't know -- let's say that's 4 trillion ...
Welfare expansion -- I don't know -- lets throw 1 trillion at it
Sanders other programs -- I don't know -- 5 trillion may do the trick


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BTDT
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09 Apr 2020, 4:13 pm

On the other hand, Trump lost. If he truly had his way he would have won the popular vote and lost the electoral vote. That way he could claim victory without the responsibility of running the government.



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09 Apr 2020, 4:13 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
Sanders won...
Take the red pill.


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RushKing
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11 Apr 2020, 9:06 am

shlaifu
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12 Apr 2020, 11:01 am

Chomsky is right, in the way he elaborates: we can now publicly speak about certain sovial-democratic ideas that have in the past been brushed off as 'socialist'. Now calling something 'socialist' (even if it's merely social-democratic) isn't enough to dismiss an idea anymore.

The problem is of course, that's far from enough.
But if our governments screw up the corona-aftermath and recovery, they probably understand now that it's either moving towards social democracy or further right, because market freedom won't fix this.


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The_Walrus
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12 Apr 2020, 12:14 pm

I’m not inclined to watch a great long video of Chomsky, who is not someone I have much time for in this context.

As I understand it, his argument is the Sanders successfully shifted “the debate” to the left on issues such as college and healthcare. And I think that’s fair.

I’m not so sure that constitutes a win. Bernie wasn’t a stalking horse. He ran in order to win the nomination, and thank goodness he failed.



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12 Apr 2020, 2:38 pm

..."Bernies participation in the race had an effect on the political climate as a whole, therefore he didn't lose even though he didn't win."

Right...


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Tw1ggy
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12 Apr 2020, 4:36 pm

Haha America is SO doomed under Trump. :lol: :cry:



The_Walrus
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13 Apr 2020, 7:29 am

Wolfram87 wrote:
..."Bernies participation in the race had an effect on the political climate as a whole, therefore he didn't lose even though he didn't win."

Right...

Well that’s not exactly a new sentiment, is it? Occasionally you’ll see someone call Nigel Farage a successful politician even though he’s lost a huge number of elections and his parties have never even reached 1% in the House of Commons. Or Martin Luther King - not good at winning elections but still clearly a winner.

A presidential race is obviously a bit different, but politics is about getting your policies implemented. If you do it without winning an election then that is a form of success.