#freeFromHijab

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The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Dec 2020, 12:09 pm

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 23 Dec 2020, 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mona Pereth
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23 Dec 2020, 12:38 pm

Here in the West, we should support the rights of Muslim-background women both to wear it AND to not wear it, as they themselves choose.

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Fnord
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23 Dec 2020, 12:51 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

Here in the West, we should support the rights of Muslim-background women both to wear it AND to not wear it, as they themselves choose.

Carrying this further, we should also support everyone's right to wear whatever religious symbols they choose, from tiny golden crosses and Stars of David to inverted pentagrams and devil's horns.

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Mona Pereth
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23 Dec 2020, 1:12 pm

Fnord wrote:

Carrying this further, we should also support everyone's right to wear whatever religious symbols they choose, from tiny golden crosses and Stars of David to inverted pentagrams and devil's horns.

Fully agreed, except for a quibble about describing point-down pentagrams as "inverted." Pentagrams in various orientations -- point-down, point-up, and point-sideways -- are all symbols in their own right that have been around for thousands of years, with a variety of different meanings.

For example, here is a pentagram in the Jaffa Gate of Jerusalem. And here is the ancient city seal of Jerusalem.

For more about the history of the pentagram, see History of the Pentagram: Symbol of Ages by Dustin Jon Scott. See also The Pentagram on the website of the Masonic Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon.

EDIT: See also The multi-purpose pentagram on the website of the Masonic Grand Lodge of Rhode Island.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 23 Dec 2020, 4:04 pm, edited 6 times in total.

madbutnotmad
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23 Dec 2020, 1:21 pm

I have no problem with people doing what they feel is right.
I mean, what difference does it make to me.
If it makes these people happy either way, then surely that is good.

What ever they think is good.

Just out of interest, some years ago, I read a book written by an ex-nun who wrote a book on the history of Islam.

Interestingly enough, wearing of the hijab never a requirement by the Prophet Muhammed, but it was a trend that was started by one of his wives, that was copied by others (like growing a beard for men).

I guess its similar to why during their time, people who supported Hitler grew little moustaches, people who supported Lenin grew chin beards, people who like John Lennon of the beatles wore round glasses.

Not actually law but a trend.

But like i say, what ever floats your boat and what ever makes you happy.
Although I have to say, I love admiring the beauty in woman, and many of the woman who wear hijabs are indeed extremely beautiful, but i have no problem sacrificing this privilege if it makes others happy.

I understand that Muslims living in western culture may feel awkward wearing hijab, but they are who they are,
so I personally have no problem with them wearing what makes them happy regardless as to why.

I personally am more offended by others who force others to do what they want, rather than accepting others.

kitesandtrainsandcats
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23 Dec 2020, 2:01 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

Here in the West, we should support the rights of Muslim-background women both to wear it AND to not wear it, as they themselves choose.

Indeed.

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kitesandtrainsandcats
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23 Dec 2020, 2:07 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:

... a book written by an ex-nun who wrote a book on the history of Islam.
Interestingly enough, wearing of the hijab never a requirement by the Prophet Muhammed, but it was a trend that was started by one of his wives, that was copied by others (like growing a beard for men).
I guess its similar to why during their time, people who supported Hitler grew little moustaches, people who supported Lenin grew chin beards, people who like John Lennon of the beatles wore round glasses.
Not actually law but a trend.

This appears to clash with that author's view, https://www.al-islam.org/hijab-muslim-w ... -and-hijab

Quote:

The Qur’an and Hijab
Islam has strongly emphasized the concept of decency and modesty in the interaction between members of the opposite sex. Dress code is part of that overall teaching. There are two verses in the Qur’an in which Almighty Allah talks about the issue of decency and hijab as defined earlier.
...
The Second Verse

In Chapter 33 known as al-Ahzab, verse 59, Allah gives the following command to Prophet Muhammad:

يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ, قُلْ لأَزْوَاجِكَ وَ بَنَاتِكَ وَ نِسآءِ الْمُؤْمِنِيْنَ: يُدْنِيْنَ عَلَيْهِنَّ مِنْ جَلاَبِيْبِهِنَّ...

“O Prophet! Say to your wives, your daughters, and the women of the believers that: they should let down upon themselves their jalabib.”
What is the meaning of “jalabib”?

Jalabib جَلاَبِيْبٌ is the plural of jilbabجِلْبَابٌ , which means a loose outer garment. See any Arabic dictionary like Lisanu ’l-‘Arab, Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn or al-Munjid.

Al-Munjid, for instance, defines jilbab as “the shirt or a wide dress—القميص أو الثوب الواسع.” While al-Turayhi, in Majma‘u ’l-Bahrayn, defines it as “a wide dress, wider than the scarf and shorter than a robe, that a woman puts upon her head and lets it down on her bosom...”5

This means that the Islamic dress code for women does not only consist of a scarf that covers the head, the neck and the bosom; it also includes the overall dress that should be long and loose.

So, for instance, the combination of a tight, short sweater with tight-fitting jeans with a scarf over the head does not fulfill the requirements of the Islamic dress code.

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Last edited by kitesandtrainsandcats on 23 Dec 2020, 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Dec 2020, 2:09 pm

I am with abolishing it altogether; especially the niqab.

Hiding your facial identity is no longer a "freedom of choice".

Fnord
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23 Dec 2020, 2:09 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Carrying this further, we should also support everyone's right to wear whatever religious symbols they choose, from tiny golden crosses and Stars of David to inverted pentagrams and devil's horns.

Fully agreed, except for a quibble about describing point-down pentagrams...

You know that, and I know that, but most people do not seem to realize that the "Little Gold Star" that teachers put on their students' homework is actually a pentagram (or pentacle) -- they seem to think that any "right-side-up" star is okay, but that any "up-side-down" star is pure E V I L ! !

I use the term to make the distinction for those who don't know there is no difference.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Dec 2020, 2:11 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:

funeralxempire
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23 Dec 2020, 4:26 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

I am with abolishing it altogether; especially the niqab.

Hiding your facial identity is no longer a "freedom of choice".

No, right now hiding one's facial identity is a result of the pandemic. :wink:

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Misslizard
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23 Dec 2020, 4:47 pm

All those women are so gorgeous.
Are there ever homely Muslim women?

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cberg
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23 Dec 2020, 5:08 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

I am with abolishing it altogether; especially the niqab.

Hiding your facial identity is no longer a "freedom of choice".

As clearly as I understand this, I've met perfectly agreeable women on either side of the issue. In no way do I believe anything should be forced on people though. As I understand it, theoretically Islam can represent something more peaceful than that.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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24 Dec 2020, 5:14 am

Misslizard wrote:

All those women are so gorgeous.
Are there ever homely Muslim women?

Selection bias, ugly people like us are less likely to post their photos :p.

naturalplastic
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24 Dec 2020, 5:36 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

I am with abolishing it altogether; especially the niqab.

Hiding your facial identity is no longer a "freedom of choice".

We should arrest them...and force them to remove their face coverings.

And then...immediately arrest them AGAIN... for NOT wearing a medical face mask against Covid 19! :lol:

The_Face_of_Boo
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24 Dec 2020, 7:19 am

naturalplastic wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

I am with abolishing it altogether; especially the niqab.

Hiding your facial identity is no longer a "freedom of choice".

We should arrest them...and force them to remove their face coverings.

And then...immediately arrest them AGAIN... for NOT wearing a medical face mask against Covid 19! :lol:

O boy, we wanted to liberate, instead we f****d it up.

My point stands though, I don't think hijab is to be compared with wearing religious symbols such as cross and pentagram, which is totally harmless.

In the 90% of cases, it is due to familial and institutional* pressure and brainwashing- I am not convinced that very young women put it due to conscious personal 'enlightenment' . At least I think it should be totally forbidden, by law, for girls less than 18, maybe even 20, to wear any form it, even if they claim to be a personal choice (because it's 100% certain that isn't) and punishes anyone trying to force them so.
* Radical movements like the Muslim brotherhood.

I remember well that around 20-30 years ago, only women over 50 wore hijab, traditionally they wore it only after doing the pilgrimage and choosing when to do pilgrimage was totally a PERSONAL CHOICE. It requires a bit of fighting with iron fist to reverse backwardness, total democracy does not work with Islamists, leave the leash too loose and they devour you in no time.

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