Does synchronicity validate superdeterminism?

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techstepgenr8tion
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18 Feb 2021, 10:37 am

I'll keep this one brief but I think it's an interesting question - at least for those who've at least had enough run-ins with it in sharp enough relief to suggest that it's not apophenia.

The question is this - when we think of how any concept of free will seems dependent on capacity to have made a different choice in time and being that, just on how we experience the flow of time or order thoughts this seems genuinely impossible, do you think it's equally possible that synchronicity is actually something like a ripple in what one might call a Minkoswski block universe?

About twelve years ago I came to superdeterminism as my default position on the free will question, largely because it seems like the relationship of time, mind, and matter, forces those relationships to behave a bit like a 4D solid in some sense (I mostly agree with Sam Harris and Robert Sapolsky on this but I also think what Sam is angling at reduces to the orientation of time and information where you can't do something that isn't in your list of available options or know that a problem is solved before its solved). That might not be a perfect analogy, for example I haven't been able to think through all of the implications of gravity and various ways that time gets stretched or played with by spacetime curvature but it doesn't seem to do that much violence to the idea as far as I can tell.

That makes me wonder if synchronicity might be one of those symptoms of dynamics in the system flowing from one place to another and hitting us along their arc. I could also see where people who are particularly fond of free will might have reasons not to like phenomena such as synchronicity - largely for the reason that it seems to demonstrate things similar to choice studies where some part of your brain knows what you're going to do seconds before you actually do it.


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18 Feb 2021, 10:41 am

Another failed attempt to associate coincidence with quantum effects.


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techstepgenr8tion
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18 Feb 2021, 10:53 am

Fnord wrote:
Another failed attempt to associate coincidence with quantum effects.

What makes it quantum?


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thinkinginpictures
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18 Feb 2021, 2:01 pm

Superdeterminism may be true, but not for the reasons you've stated here.

There is no "meaning" in the universe, that is fundamental. All "meaning" really means is that a bunch of atoms, when reacting the right way they create consciousness and thus "meaning". Meaning is an emergent phenomenon rather than a fundamental thing.

That said, superdeterminism probably isn't true anyway, for the reasons of the 2018 Entanglement Experiment testing Quantum Entanglement using light emitted from Quasars.

That makes it highly unlikely (if not impossible) that any classical explanation can predict the outcome of Quantum Entanglement - and therefore superdeterminism ultimately fails as a valid explanation for the universe.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 114121.htm

Quote:
New research boosts the case for quantum entanglement. Scientists have used distant quasars, one of which emitted its light 7.8 billion years ago and the other 12.2 billion years ago, to determine the measurements to be made on pairs of entangled photons. They found correlations among more than 30,000 pairs of photons -- far exceeding the limit for a classically based mechanism.


But even though superdeterminism is wrong, that still doesn't give you free will. Quantum randomness ultimately controls the outcome of your neurons and brain activity, and therefore you cannot have free will with true unpredictability either.



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18 Feb 2021, 2:08 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Another failed attempt to associate coincidence with quantum effects.
What makes it quantum?
Thinkinginpictures beat me to it.


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techstepgenr8tion
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18 Feb 2021, 2:19 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
There is no "meaning" in the universe, that is fundamental. All "meaning" really means is that a bunch of atoms, when reacting the right way they create consciousness and thus "meaning". Meaning is an emergent phenomenon rather than a fundamental thing.

Leaving tautology aside - I'm not thinking of synchronicity as a 'yes, there is a God' moment or 'yes, life and existence on earth has meaning because x just happened to me'. It's really first and foremost an uncanny flow of information that seems tethered to a state you were in that shows up in some rather low probability circumstance in the days afterward. I'm not necessarily making an argument that the universe is meaningful, I'm definitely not making the claim that the universe has some type of teleological meaning either, I'm suggesting that strong synchronicity of the sort that normal people experiencing them would find them compelling (starting at 2000:1 or 10,000:1 odds for example) that the mistake is perhaps not in identifying the low probability connection but rather the idea that you authored the thoughts that ended up on the other side of the event. More likely it passed through you and your own thoughts or actions that were the front-half of the action and observation was part of a much longer cascade (which was coherent before it got to you).

thinkinginpictures wrote:
That said, superdeterminism probably isn't true anyway, for the reasons of the 2018 Entanglement Experiment testing Quantum Entanglement using light emitted from Quasars.


That makes it highly unlikely (if not impossible) that any classical explanation can predict the outcome of Quantum Entanglement - and therefore superdeterminism ultimately fails as a valid explanation for the universe.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 114121.htm

Quote:
New research boosts the case for quantum entanglement. Scientists have used distant quasars, one of which emitted its light 7.8 billion years ago and the other 12.2 billion years ago, to determine the measurements to be made on pairs of entangled photons. They found correlations among more than 30,000 pairs of photons -- far exceeding the limit for a classically based mechanism.

That sounds complex but where does it bring forth randomness?

thinkinginpictures wrote:
But even though superdeterminism is wrong, that still doesn't give you free will. Quantum randomness ultimately controls the outcome of your neurons and brain activity, and therefore you cannot have free will with true unpredictability either.

Well right, that's a softer form of determinism - the sort of thing that Brian Greene was disagreeing with Sam Harris on. Maybe one question - how would you actually determine if a system outside your purview, that you're just seeing the front edge of, is truly random (in the context of time) rather than complex or superficially chaotic.


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aghogday
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18 Feb 2021, 2:37 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I'll keep this one brief but I think it's an interesting question - at least for those who've at least had enough run-ins with it in sharp enough relief to suggest that it's not apophenia.

The question is this - when we think of how any concept of free will seems dependent on capacity to have made a different choice in time and being that, just on how we experience the flow of time or order thoughts this seems genuinely impossible, do you think it's equally possible that synchronicity is actually something like a ripple in what one might call a Minkoswski block universe?

About twelve years ago I came to superdeterminism as my default position on the free will question, largely because it seems like the relationship of time, mind, and matter, forces those relationships to behave a bit like a 4D solid in some sense (I mostly agree with Sam Harris and Robert Sapolsky on this but I also think what Sam is angling at reduces to the orientation of time and information where you can't do something that isn't in your list of available options or know that a problem is solved before its solved). That might not be a perfect analogy, for example I haven't been able to think through all of the implications of gravity and various ways that time gets stretched or played with by spacetime curvature but it doesn't seem to do that much violence to the idea as far as I can tell.

That makes me wonder if synchronicity might be one of those symptoms of dynamics in the system flowing from one place to another and hitting us along their arc. I could also see where people who are particularly fond of free will might have reasons not to like phenomena such as synchronicity - largely for the reason that it seems to demonstrate things similar to choice studies where some part of your brain knows what you're going to do seconds before you actually do it.





Hehe i don't 'know' 'Man', You Tell me...
Walking Around the Block With my
Sister and Wife, Just Joking i'll make
A Rainbow Happen Next Before

A Hurricane arrives;

Less than a Minute

Later a Rainbow

Appears

in A Cloudy

Sky With No

Visible Blue

Skies Or Sun;

And then Another

Night, More Recently,

Joking Around; Walking

Around the Block, Just Wait

i'll Make A Rainbow Happen at

Night; Sure, i've Seen 'Sun Dogs'

Plenty of times in the Day...

Yet A 'Moon Dog' At Night

Is Indeed More Rare

Not Commonly

Seen And Never

Seen in my 60 Years

Until the Next Wolf Full

Moon Night; Yes, the Last

Full Moon And as Our Minds

Tend to Look for Humanity in

All Things Existence of Course our

Closest Companion We See in Life;

A Vague Cloud Formation at Night,

Source of Moon Dogs With Moonlight

Centered Inside the Halo With Rainbow

Colors At The Edges A Vague Formation

Of an 'Angel Child' for those who Might

See that Illusion too as Our Minds

Do Create Hallucinations Basically

As Our Realities Based on

Past Hallucinations

As Even Neuroscience Suggests Now...

This Never Happened, Before i Went into Flow;

Almost Constantly Creative Every Moment of the

Day In Words Becoming Song and Every Move Becoming

A Creative Dance too; True, Just another Human Potential SO

Has EVERYTHING

Been Measured

Before NO So

What Color

Is Color Blind;

What Mind is

Mind Blind; What

'SouL' SeeS and Does not See Now more...

Does 'It' Need Words to Exist; Does Imagination

Need Trees to Grow; Well Sure, We are the Leaves

We Are the Tree, We Are the UNIVERSE too Our Minds;

Our Minds of All We 'See' And Do or Do Not See Do Now...

What i Experience

Is Unique, For

Every Human

Eye is an Entirely

New Existence;

Another

UniVerse

CoLoRinG by the Paint We BRinG...

In FAct, the ReaLiTY is THere IS
NO MATERIAL REDUCTIONISM
OF THE EXPERIENCE OF WHAT
WE PERCEIVE OF EXISTENCE NOW

Open to Explore What We all Individually

Paint With Our Unique Eyes of 'God' (NOT
the 'Trademark' one, the 'one' coming next)

i SuPPoSE

'God' never Gets

Lonely

Or Bored

This way

DAM SURE NOT WITH ME.. HEHE...

When i was 'Lost' Here on the 'Wrong
Planet', totally Outside of Social, Empathic,
Artistic, Spiritual Intelligences; Yes, Metaphor
of Restricted Left Brain Systemizing, Rationalizing
Thought; Predictably assessed then on the AQ Quiz
For Systemizing Traits of Autism at 45 Out of 50 then
And 192 out of 200 On the Aspie Quiz Non-Official Assessment

Measure to Scan Autistic Systemizing Traits, when i experienced

No Synchronicities at all; No Colors of Life; Yet You See i wasn't

Always that Way; i had at least a Reference Point Before of Living

Life instead of Living Black And White Literal Dead; NO DOCTOR

had even a clue how to Bring that Breath of Existence Back; i had

to Work it out on my own, So i wrote and wrote and wrote Millions

of Words in Search For my Soul Again through also the Literal Worst

Pain Known to Humankind From wake to Sleep, Trigeminal Neuralgia

Type Two for 66 Months, Yet i didn't tolerate it enough to Write until

33 Months Here Starting on the Wrong Planet; Eventually a Poetic

Spark Like Replacing Spark Plugs in a 12 Cylinder Ferrari With Only

6 Cylinders Sparked; And Sure Enough A Creative Explosion and

i took that AQ test and Scored

11; And took that Aspie

Quiz test Again and

Scored a 92;

And took An EQ Test

Where i scored in the Mid

50's Before And Raised that

Score up to 95 out of 100;

Additionally, Personality

As Scored by the one

That isn't very Reliable

as ENFP As Opposed to

INTJ Personality Before;

Assessed by a Large 'Wrong Planet' Informal

Poll, Not Surprisingly, Considering

The Condition of a Very Restrictive

Systemizing Condition, Yes INTJ, most

Prevalent on this Website too; So what happened

to me; Was it Magic, Was It a Miracle, Was it Synchronicity;

As That's What the Doctors Named it For Real (A MIRACLE) When a Prognosis

For No Recovery Became Sudden Remission of all the Pain and Numb Before....

Ever Cross

A Bridge...

Ever Unpack

Epigenetic Potential,

Yet Used in Environmental

Struggle For Adaptation to Survive...

Real Life is Magic; Ya Just Have to

Figure out 'The Cheat Codes' and Rise

Out of the Ashes, And Finally Fly No Longer Misfit on Earth....

in Just my Opinion; it's Not that it's Any More Supernatural

Than The Color Blind Becoming Able to Discern Colors;

It's Just another

Part of

Nature

That Few come

to 'See', Yet they Do;

As the Evidence of my

Life Clearly Relates beyond

all Refute; and Yes, i took a

Picture of the Moon Dog and 'Moon Child' too...

It's Hard

To Say

'Who'

The 'Moon Child' is;

THere Are No Limits to

Human Imagination;

Creators rule

Their own

Story

Inheriting

Their Own Version

of Earth; Some Do it more EPic than

Others, Go Figure; Find the Cheats that work for you; and as

Nike Says

Just Do It;

Don't 'Think'

About 'Selling Shoes'...

Learn to Walk Instead

Then Dance And Sing More Than Talk...

Way i see

Magic

At Least

For Real With

So much more to CoME; Never
Ending Never Landing Story Indeed...

People Have Been Attempting to Mutually
And Consensually Relate Reality Through
Symbols For Thousands of Years; MORE TO COME...

CHANGE...

COUNT ON

IT Best in Balance
of Mind and Body Soul...

Have A Nice Day Create it That
Way If You Can And Will; Works

Without Fail Now for me; And Of

Course Being Financially

Independent is

Just About

A Necessary

Ingredient

to Set Wings

Free This Way

As 'Earning Mammon'

is No Part of this FLiGHT


Image



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