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dorkseid
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08 Feb 2021, 9:10 am

When I was 5 or 6 years, my mother decided it was her place, with asking for my consent on the matter, to choose for me what I believe at a point in my life when I couldn't even begin to comprehend what that even means. And worse, this particular religion happens to include a ruling of death for apostasy; meaning that even once I was old enough to make my own choice I could not do so with endangering myself and painting a target on my back that will last for the rest of my life. If she was unaware of the last part when she made her decision, that just means that she made a huge decision for me that will alter the rest of my life without bothering to do her due diligence and properly research something before just throwing me into the deep end of it. This, understandably, has been a huge point of contention in our relationship and we are not currently on speaking terms.



shlaifu
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08 Feb 2021, 2:25 pm

One would assume, if you were to turn your back on this faith, you would also discard the belief in this faith's rules and punishments.

I am an atheist, but was raised catholic. I wasn't afraid of hell when I left, because I wasn't believing in hell at all. But if I had believed in it... Well, why would I have left the church, if I was still believing?

So.... Apostasy is only an issue for you if you were to commit it while still believing. But then, there wouldn't be any reason to commit apostasy.


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Last edited by shlaifu on 08 Feb 2021, 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kraftiekortie
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08 Feb 2021, 2:47 pm

You're 18 or above. You are not bound to that particular "religion" you mentioned.



NaturalEntity
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08 Feb 2021, 2:54 pm

Agreed with kraftiekortie. I believe that your mother did a very bad thing by 'converting' you.


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Fnord
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08 Feb 2021, 4:53 pm

The word "indoctrinated" seems more appropriate that "converted"; but that is just my opinion.



madbutnotmad
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08 Feb 2021, 5:24 pm

I would say that your problem is complex and is a fairly common problem among people who hold a strong faith in one or another religions who also have children.

Some religions are more forgiving than others, and some parents are more flexible than others.
This all are often determined by the parents and how they embrace their faith.

My parents, while not religious are spiritual and live / promote Christian values.
I have a good friend who has always been a good Christian guy, and although since being married, now goes to Church a great deal less. I would say he still is a good Christian and far more realised than many I have met in churches and meeting halls.

Over the years, I have met people from various religions, who keep extremely ridged rules about how to practice their religion and who expect their family members to uphold these same standards if they wish to be involved with them.

My ex-wife haven been a converted Jehovah Witness, also was extremely opinionated with regards to her religious views (or should i say the views that were prescribed to her by the Watchtower society), and what it meant to break the many many rules of the Jehovah Witness Watchtower society, who ever you are, child, adult, teenager, sons and daughters.

Yep. This particular religion has very little tolerance for anyone who disagrees with their secret masters, who rule in anonymously, who speak for God, Jesus and all that is holy, from the shadows (from their HQ in Brooklyn).

Breaking the Watchtowers rules, does often result in the offending party to be thrown out of the flock and banished.
And if a baptised one dare speak ill of his unwanted masters, then, they will be branded as an Apostate and all their family and friends will turn their backs upon them.

Although from the ideals of the Holy nation of Israel, I understand why they throw out wolves from their pack.
As Mosaic law was designed to protect the innocent from those who would take advantage or defile their holy people.

However, i think that there in the case of the JW's, it is hard to ascertain who the wolves are, the people who identify the wolves and point them out or leave because they realise this, or those who protect their investment in the watchtower pyramid scheme, or perhaps just the many brain washed who follow blindly...##

Personally, my sympathies are with you, as such life circumstances are torn by nature.
I hope you are able to work out some way to reconcile, perhaps a relationship mediator?



dorkseid
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08 Feb 2021, 7:41 pm

shlaifu wrote:
One would assume, if you were to turn your back on this faith, you would also discard the belief in this faith's rules and punishments.

I am an atheist, but was raised catholic. I wasn't afraid of hell when I left, because I wasn't believing in hell at all. But if I had believed in it... Well, why would I have left the church, if I was still believing?

So.... Apostasy is only an issue for you if you were to commit it while still believing. But then, there wouldn't be any reason to commit apostasy.


I don't think you understand what I mean by "ruling of death for apostasy."

I'm not talking about some superstitious doctrine that some imaginary will fall upon me for leaving the religion. It means that other followers of the religion are instructed to kill anyone who leaves.



kraftiekortie
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08 Feb 2021, 7:44 pm

What sort of nutty "religion" is this????



shlaifu
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08 Feb 2021, 9:46 pm

dorkseid wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
One would assume, if you were to turn your back on this faith, you would also discard the belief in this faith's rules and punishments.

I am an atheist, but was raised catholic. I wasn't afraid of hell when I left, because I wasn't believing in hell at all. But if I had believed in it... Well, why would I have left the church, if I was still believing?

So.... Apostasy is only an issue for you if you were to commit it while still believing. But then, there wouldn't be any reason to commit apostasy.


I don't think you understand what I mean by "ruling of death for apostasy."

I'm not talking about some superstitious doctrine that some imaginary will fall upon me for leaving the religion. It means that other followers of the religion are instructed to kill anyone who leaves.


Yup. I got that wrong, sorry.

All I can suggest is you seek help with professionals who can tell you how to get out and stay safe. Sorry, I think this might be beyond this forum - well at least it's beyond me.
I'm sorry.
I sincerely wish you good luck and stay safe.


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Bradleigh
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09 Feb 2021, 1:15 am

Are you in a place where you are safe people being able to enforce religious executions? Does your country allow or look the other way? I know that there are resources out there that can help people escape things like cults, and I imagine most countries with their law should be open to intervene against religions just deciding that they can kill people. Usually these sorts of religious groups have less power than they would like to project.

Keep yourself safe if you think there is a risk, but don't give up on gaining your autonomy or freedom. No religious group can own a person just because they were converted when they were young, considering things like contract law, generally not even as an adult either.


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naturalplastic
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09 Feb 2021, 2:37 am

Is this Islam?

Or is this some new fangled cult that your mom was involved in?



GGPViper
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09 Feb 2021, 6:16 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Is this Islam?

Or is this some new fangled cult that your mom was involved in?

The OP has previously stated that he is a former Muslim... and the death penalty for apostasy in Christianity gradually fell out of use centuries ago, probably after the Peace of Westphalia.



kraftiekortie
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09 Feb 2021, 6:36 am

In 1648.



dorkseid
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09 Feb 2021, 9:31 am

So it seems I should clarify that I am not in any immediate danger. I live in the US where I have the freedom to leave my former religion. And because I look like a typical European American, it never occurs to anyone I encounter that I ever was a Muslim. However, most Muslim majority countries still have some form of punishment for apostasy, many of which include imprisonment or execution. So I do not know if it will ever be safe for me to ever return to where my family lives in Libya.



dorkseid
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09 Feb 2021, 9:41 am

madbutnotmad wrote:
I would say that your problem is complex and is a fairly common problem among people who hold a strong faith in one or another religions who also have children.

Some religions are more forgiving than others, and some parents are more flexible than others.
This all are often determined by the parents and how they embrace their faith.

My parents, while not religious are spiritual and live / promote Christian values.
I have a good friend who has always been a good Christian guy, and although since being married, now goes to Church a great deal less. I would say he still is a good Christian and far more realised than many I have met in churches and meeting halls.

Over the years, I have met people from various religions, who keep extremely ridged rules about how to practice their religion and who expect their family members to uphold these same standards if they wish to be involved with them.

My ex-wife haven been a converted Jehovah Witness, also was extremely opinionated with regards to her religious views (or should i say the views that were prescribed to her by the Watchtower society), and what it meant to break the many many rules of the Jehovah Witness Watchtower society, who ever you are, child, adult, teenager, sons and daughters.

Yep. This particular religion has very little tolerance for anyone who disagrees with their secret masters, who rule in anonymously, who speak for God, Jesus and all that is holy, from the shadows (from their HQ in Brooklyn).

Breaking the Watchtowers rules, does often result in the offending party to be thrown out of the flock and banished.
And if a baptised one dare speak ill of his unwanted masters, then, they will be branded as an Apostate and all their family and friends will turn their backs upon them.

Although from the ideals of the Holy nation of Israel, I understand why they throw out wolves from their pack.
As Mosaic law was designed to protect the innocent from those who would take advantage or defile their holy people.

However, i think that there in the case of the JW's, it is hard to ascertain who the wolves are, the people who identify the wolves and point them out or leave because they realise this, or those who protect their investment in the watchtower pyramid scheme, or perhaps just the many brain washed who follow blindly...##

Personally, my sympathies are with you, as such life circumstances are torn by nature.
I hope you are able to work out some way to reconcile, perhaps a relationship mediator?


Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly: you're saying that other religions or denominations, like Jehovah's Witnesses, have unreasonable rules and standards and are controlled by a cabal of "secret masters" who claim speak on behalf of God? But "True Christianity" (a.k.a. whichever Christian denomination you arbitrarily happen to subscribe to) is perfectly reasonable and rational and actually does represent the true will of God?



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09 Feb 2021, 9:56 am

Depends on the religion tbh.

If someone doesn't believe in Hell, there are no earthly problems with leaving a religion that says if you don't believe it you go to Hell.

But some religions have greater control than that.

For eg they might tell family members they can no longer contact you if you leave the religion.

I think even most atheists would find that a problem.

Or they think you can't get a blood transfusion. Then you're in a traffic accident and need one. The results could be deadly.


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