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funeralxempire
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08 Apr 2021, 9:30 pm

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Quote:
The Chicago Project on Security and Threats (CPOST), working with court records, has analyzed the demographics and home county characteristics of the 377 Americans, from 250 counties in 44 states, arrested or charged in the Capitol attack.

Those involved are, by and large, older and more professional than right-wing protesters we have surveyed in the past. They typically have no ties to existing right-wing groups. But like earlier protesters, they are 95 percent White and 85 percent male, and many live near and among Biden supporters in blue and purple counties.

...
Nor were these insurrectionists typically from deep-red counties. Some 52 percent are from blue counties that Biden comfortably won. By far the most interesting characteristic common to the insurrectionists’ backgrounds has to do with changes in their local demographics: Counties with the most significant declines in the non-Hispanic White population are the most likely to produce insurrectionists who now face charges.

For example, Texas is the home of 36 of the 377 charged or arrested nationwide. The majority of the state’s alleged insurrectionists — 20 of 36 — live in six quickly diversifying blue counties such as Dallas and Harris (Houston). In fact, all 36 of Texas’s rioters come from just 17 counties, each of which lost White population over the past five years. Three of those arrested or charged hail from Collin County north of Dallas, which has lost White population at the very brisk rate of 4.3 percent since 2015.
...
CPOST also conducted two independent surveys in February and March, including a National Opinion Research Council survey, to help understand the roots of this rage. One driver overwhelmingly stood out: fear of the “Great Replacement.” Great Replacement theory has achieved iconic status with white nationalists and holds that minorities are progressively replacing White populations due to mass immigration policies and low birthrates. Extensive social media exposure is the second-biggest driver of this view, our surveys found. Replacement theory might help explain why such a high percentage of the rioters hail from counties with fast-rising, non-White populations.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... -analysis/

I feel like this isn't shocking to discover and yet there will still be people who claim racism couldn't possibly be a factor.


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salad
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08 Apr 2021, 9:45 pm

I think Im going to draw a lot of ire for this but methinks the entire Capitol Hill riot was staged as a way of making Trump supporters look bad. I don't see any way that a bunch of lowly rabble could infiltrate a government building that's supposed to be that heavily fortified. I hate Trump and most of his supporters come off as braindead, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm skeptical of the accounts of the Capitol Hill riot.


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08 Apr 2021, 9:46 pm

Yeah...no. I want an unbiased source talking about this stuff.


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funeralxempire
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08 Apr 2021, 10:16 pm

salad wrote:
I think Im going to draw a lot of ire for this but methinks the entire Capitol Hill riot was staged as a way of making Trump supporters look bad. I don't see any way that a bunch of lowly rabble could infiltrate a government building that's supposed to be that heavily fortified. I hate Trump and most of his supporters come off as braindead, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm skeptical of the accounts of the Capitol Hill riot.


Do you have actual evidence of this?
Do you think the Trump supporters were lying when they posted selfies and bragged? :scratch:


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salad
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08 Apr 2021, 10:41 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
salad wrote:
I think Im going to draw a lot of ire for this but methinks the entire Capitol Hill riot was staged as a way of making Trump supporters look bad. I don't see any way that a bunch of lowly rabble could infiltrate a government building that's supposed to be that heavily fortified. I hate Trump and most of his supporters come off as braindead, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm skeptical of the accounts of the Capitol Hill riot.


Do you have actual evidence of this?
Do you think the Trump supporters were lying when they posted selfies and bragged? :scratch:


I'd be lying if I said I could argue my suspicion in a court of law with reams of undeniable evidence. What I have is skeptical conjecture doubting the veracity of these claims for a variety of reasons. my greatest source of doubt is that I cant fathom how a Capitol building of the most powerful nation in the world can be invaded and taken over so effortlessly. I just cant believe that


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funeralxempire
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08 Apr 2021, 10:44 pm

salad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
salad wrote:
I think Im going to draw a lot of ire for this but methinks the entire Capitol Hill riot was staged as a way of making Trump supporters look bad. I don't see any way that a bunch of lowly rabble could infiltrate a government building that's supposed to be that heavily fortified. I hate Trump and most of his supporters come off as braindead, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm skeptical of the accounts of the Capitol Hill riot.


Do you have actual evidence of this?
Do you think the Trump supporters were lying when they posted selfies and bragged? :scratch:


I'd be lying if I said I could argue my suspicion in a court of law with reams of undeniable evidence. What I have is skeptical conjecture doubting the veracity of these claims for a variety of reasons. my greatest source of doubt is that I cant fathom how a Capitol building of the most powerful nation in the world can be invaded and taken over so effortlessly. I just cant believe that


There wasn't an adequate security response because they lacked numbers. The potential threat appears to have been greatly underestimated.


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08 Apr 2021, 10:49 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
salad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
salad wrote:
I think Im going to draw a lot of ire for this but methinks the entire Capitol Hill riot was staged as a way of making Trump supporters look bad. I don't see any way that a bunch of lowly rabble could infiltrate a government building that's supposed to be that heavily fortified. I hate Trump and most of his supporters come off as braindead, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I'm skeptical of the accounts of the Capitol Hill riot.


Do you have actual evidence of this?
Do you think the Trump supporters were lying when they posted selfies and bragged? :scratch:


I'd be lying if I said I could argue my suspicion in a court of law with reams of undeniable evidence. What I have is skeptical conjecture doubting the veracity of these claims for a variety of reasons. my greatest source of doubt is that I cant fathom how a Capitol building of the most powerful nation in the world can be invaded and taken over so effortlessly. I just cant believe that


There wasn't an adequate security response because they lacked numbers. The potential threat appears to have been greatly underestimated.


Maybe its just my own subjective doubt, but im still struggling to believe such a massive oversight would be made by the most powerful and versatile military and intelligence forces in the world. If insurrections were as easy that any random bloke can execute it at any time, then our country would have been overrun a long time ago before we had the complex spyware, military and intelligence forces to preempt that, especially when the invaders are a bunch of rowdy rabble.

I know in a court of law reasonable doubt and incredulity isn't evidence so I would never maintain my contention is certain beyond a reasonable doubt, but I at the same time dont see myself fully on board with the official explanation


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funeralxempire
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08 Apr 2021, 10:55 pm

salad wrote:
Maybe its just my own subjective doubt, but im still struggling to believe such a massive oversight would be made by the most powerful and versatile military and intelligence forces in the world. If insurrections were as easy that any random bloke can execute it at any time, then our country would have been overrun a long time ago before we had the complex spyware, military and intelligence forces to preempt that, especially when the invaders are a bunch of rowdy rabble.

I know in a court of law reasonable doubt and incredulity isn't evidence so I would never maintain my contention is certain beyond a reasonable doubt, but I at the same time dont see myself fully on board with the official explanation


You don't think there's been a historic tendency to underestimate the potential for violence from the right?


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08 Apr 2021, 11:26 pm

none so blind as those who refuse to see.



salad
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08 Apr 2021, 11:56 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
salad wrote:
Maybe its just my own subjective doubt, but im still struggling to believe such a massive oversight would be made by the most powerful and versatile military and intelligence forces in the world. If insurrections were as easy that any random bloke can execute it at any time, then our country would have been overrun a long time ago before we had the complex spyware, military and intelligence forces to preempt that, especially when the invaders are a bunch of rowdy rabble.

I know in a court of law reasonable doubt and incredulity isn't evidence so I would never maintain my contention is certain beyond a reasonable doubt, but I at the same time dont see myself fully on board with the official explanation


You don't think there's been a historic tendency to underestimate the potential for violence from the right?


I dont deny that, however I just dont see that as plausibly explaining how in the year 2021 when the military and intelligence apparatuses, security systems, regimentation and organization of the most powerful country on earth could ever allow a crowd of rabble to storm the Capitol building that easily. Throughout all of human history the Capitol building, and especially the high profile lives of the upper classes who frequent such buildings for governmental functions, were always the most secure places on earth and the level of security made it impossible to ever approach the CAPITAL (as in the city), let alone the CAPITOL building. America during the Civil War spent 4 bloody and hellish years just trying to reach Richmond, the CAPITAL of the confederacy, forget about even the Capitol building residing there. The FBI and CIA have been speaking about anti-government and anti-establishment factions for a long time, and especially with the upheaval throughout all of 2020 and all the talks about the Boogaloo movement and the Proud Boys I fall to see how the US government could have not been more secure during the counting of ballots for a PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, and not just any Presidential Election, but the most contested in American history, more than even the one in 2000. Add on to the fact as early as November 2020 Trump supporters were proclaiming fraud in the election, and couple that with the putative documented threat of radicalized Trump supporters by the FBI, and couple that with 1000 other red flags, I dont think it makes all that sense for such a breach of security and common sense to have taken place unless this was planned to make Trump supporters look bad.


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funeralxempire
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09 Apr 2021, 12:06 am

salad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
salad wrote:
Maybe its just my own subjective doubt, but im still struggling to believe such a massive oversight would be made by the most powerful and versatile military and intelligence forces in the world. If insurrections were as easy that any random bloke can execute it at any time, then our country would have been overrun a long time ago before we had the complex spyware, military and intelligence forces to preempt that, especially when the invaders are a bunch of rowdy rabble.

I know in a court of law reasonable doubt and incredulity isn't evidence so I would never maintain my contention is certain beyond a reasonable doubt, but I at the same time dont see myself fully on board with the official explanation


You don't think there's been a historic tendency to underestimate the potential for violence from the right?


I dont deny that, however I just dont see that as plausibly explaining how in the year 2021 when the military and intelligence apparatuses, security systems, regimentation and organization of the most powerful country on earth could ever allow a crowd of rabble to storm the Capitol building that easily. Throughout all of human history the Capitol building, and especially the high profile lives of the upper classes who frequent such buildings for governmental functions, were always the most secure places on earth and the level of security made it impossible to ever approach the CAPITAL (as in the city), let alone the CAPITOL building. America during the Civil War spent 4 bloody and hellish years just trying to reach Richmond, the CAPITAL of the confederacy, forget about even the Capitol building residing there. The FBI and CIA have been speaking about anti-government and anti-establishment factions for a long time, and especially with the upheaval throughout all of 2020 and all the talks about the Boogaloo movement and the Proud Boys I fall to see how the US government could have not been more secure during the counting of ballots for a PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, and not just any Presidential Election, but the most contested in American history, more than even the one in 2000. Add on to the fact as early as November 2020 Trump supporters were proclaiming fraud in the election, and couple that with the putative documented threat of radicalized Trump supporters by the FBI, and couple that with 1000 other red flags, I dont think it makes all that sense for such a breach of security and common sense to have taken place unless this was planned to make Trump supporters look bad.


So it could fit into a long pattern of failures to take far-right threats of violence seriously or could be an elaborate scheme to make white supremacists and the far-right look bad despite of no evidence for that and plenty of alt-right types being undeniably linked to the event by their own admission?

I mean, maybe it's all a plot to make them look bad, but that doesn't seem likely. They made themselves look bad.


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salad
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09 Apr 2021, 12:18 am

funeralxempire wrote:
salad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
salad wrote:
Maybe its just my own subjective doubt, but im still struggling to believe such a massive oversight would be made by the most powerful and versatile military and intelligence forces in the world. If insurrections were as easy that any random bloke can execute it at any time, then our country would have been overrun a long time ago before we had the complex spyware, military and intelligence forces to preempt that, especially when the invaders are a bunch of rowdy rabble.

I know in a court of law reasonable doubt and incredulity isn't evidence so I would never maintain my contention is certain beyond a reasonable doubt, but I at the same time dont see myself fully on board with the official explanation


You don't think there's been a historic tendency to underestimate the potential for violence from the right?


I dont deny that, however I just dont see that as plausibly explaining how in the year 2021 when the military and intelligence apparatuses, security systems, regimentation and organization of the most powerful country on earth could ever allow a crowd of rabble to storm the Capitol building that easily. Throughout all of human history the Capitol building, and especially the high profile lives of the upper classes who frequent such buildings for governmental functions, were always the most secure places on earth and the level of security made it impossible to ever approach the CAPITAL (as in the city), let alone the CAPITOL building. America during the Civil War spent 4 bloody and hellish years just trying to reach Richmond, the CAPITAL of the confederacy, forget about even the Capitol building residing there. The FBI and CIA have been speaking about anti-government and anti-establishment factions for a long time, and especially with the upheaval throughout all of 2020 and all the talks about the Boogaloo movement and the Proud Boys I fall to see how the US government could have not been more secure during the counting of ballots for a PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, and not just any Presidential Election, but the most contested in American history, more than even the one in 2000. Add on to the fact as early as November 2020 Trump supporters were proclaiming fraud in the election, and couple that with the putative documented threat of radicalized Trump supporters by the FBI, and couple that with 1000 other red flags, I dont think it makes all that sense for such a breach of security and common sense to have taken place unless this was planned to make Trump supporters look bad.


So it could fit into a long pattern of failures to take far-right threats of violence seriously or could be an elaborate scheme to make white supremacists and the far-right look bad despite of no evidence for that and plenty of alt-right types being undeniably linked to the event by their own admission?

I mean, maybe it's all a plot to make them look bad, but that doesn't seem likely. They made themselves look bad.


Or it could be a combination of both points since neither point is completely mutually disjoint with the other. It is possible that Trump supporters and the Alt-Right have their violent crazies, and its also possible that certain powers to be would capitalize (no pun intended) on that perception and phenomena to their advantage and either allow, infiltrate or have some role in this insurrection for some type of political expediency or ulterior motive, since thats the only way I can make sense of the anomaly of a band of rabble infiltrating the Capitol Hill building.

False flags throughout history aren't unheard of, and one type of false flag thats very insidious are when the perpetrators of a putative crime could have been culpable, but the powers above allowed it or used it to their advantage.

The same thing happened during the Floyd protests in 2020 btw, which I witnessed since I was unfortunately on vacation in Minneapolis when it blew up (still have PTSD to this day from that....)

There were for sure actual pissed off blacks and even whites who were tired of police corruption and who genuinely got rowdy and violent and wanted to wreck stuff up in retaliation, but there were also instigators, outside agitators, infiltrators who were white supremacists, and even the police force allowed certain acts of violence to take place since it was politically expedient for making themselves look like victims and their opponents as terrorists.

I've learned that politics and reality are far more complex and grey than mutually disjoint sides, but often times there can be a convergence of several truths that may seem contradictory but in reality make sense when you dissect the different motivations of different actors


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09 Apr 2021, 6:30 am

salad wrote:
I just dont see that as plausibly explaining how in the year 2021 when the military and intelligence apparatuses, security systems, regimentation and organization of the most powerful country on earth could ever allow a crowd of rabble to storm the Capitol building that easily. .


That's an easy one. Firstly many republicans supported the storming. Many were open about it, many were quietly egging on the MAGAs. I posit there was complicity at government level but from the republican side.
Second much of the military-industrial complex has been infiltrated for years by right wingers. The defence forces, police, FBI and CIA are full of people who carry on the tradition founded by Joseph McCarthy and JG Edgar Hoover of perpetuating white American hegemony over America.



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09 Apr 2021, 7:18 am

Elements of the Capitol Police supported the insurrectionists. An “inside job,” so to speak.

It’s ridiculous that the protesters who became insurrectionists was allowed with one block of the Capitol.



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09 Apr 2021, 7:33 am

salad wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
salad wrote:
Maybe its just my own subjective doubt, but im still struggling to believe such a massive oversight would be made by the most powerful and versatile military and intelligence forces in the world. If insurrections were as easy that any random bloke can execute it at any time, then our country would have been overrun a long time ago before we had the complex spyware, military and intelligence forces to preempt that, especially when the invaders are a bunch of rowdy rabble.

I know in a court of law reasonable doubt and incredulity isn't evidence so I would never maintain my contention is certain beyond a reasonable doubt, but I at the same time dont see myself fully on board with the official explanation


You don't think there's been a historic tendency to underestimate the potential for violence from the right?


I dont deny that, however I just dont see that as plausibly explaining how in the year 2021 when the military and intelligence apparatuses, security systems, regimentation and organization of the most powerful country on earth could ever allow a crowd of rabble to storm the Capitol building that easily. Throughout all of human history the Capitol building, and especially the high profile lives of the upper classes who frequent such buildings for governmental functions, were always the most secure places on earth and the level of security made it impossible to ever approach the CAPITAL (as in the city), let alone the CAPITOL building. America during the Civil War spent 4 bloody and hellish years just trying to reach Richmond, the CAPITAL of the confederacy, forget about even the Capitol building residing there. The FBI and CIA have been speaking about anti-government and anti-establishment factions for a long time, and especially with the upheaval throughout all of 2020 and all the talks about the Boogaloo movement and the Proud Boys I fall to see how the US government could have not been more secure during the counting of ballots for a PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION, and not just any Presidential Election, but the most contested in American history, more than even the one in 2000. Add on to the fact as early as November 2020 Trump supporters were proclaiming fraud in the election, and couple that with the putative documented threat of radicalized Trump supporters by the FBI, and couple that with 1000 other red flags, I dont think it makes all that sense for such a breach of security and common sense to have taken place unless this was planned to make Trump supporters look bad.

My own conspiracy theory is that the the Capital police leadership intentionally stood-down. A lot was made of comparing how BLM protesters were treated in comparison to insurrectionists. I as a 63 year old white male with a cane prior to the insurrection would expected to be shot to pieces if I started walking up the capital steps and refused an order to halt. Overkill?, how would they know I was not a suicide bomber?

This was one of the most contentious well known in advance sessions of Congress in modern history. I posted an article the night before saying they were getting intelligence the capital might be stormed. It strains credulity that I some random dude on the internet know more then the Capital Police.


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09 Apr 2021, 8:14 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Elements of the Capitol Police supported the insurrectionists. An “inside job,” so to speak.

It’s ridiculous that the protesters who became insurrectionists was allowed with one block of the Capitol.


That's what I'm going with. The Capitol police were sympathetic to the insurrectionists.


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