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Pepe
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12 Mar 2022, 6:08 pm

Quote:
“If Russia lays down its weapons, there is no war. If Ukraine lays down its weapons, there is no Ukraine.”


This quote was inspired by:
Quote:
Golda Meir: "If the Arabs put down their guns there would be no more fighting. If the Israelis put down theirs there would be no more Israel."


8)



Tross
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12 Mar 2022, 6:31 pm

Very true. It's because Russia are the aggressors here. If they don't attack, there is no war. If the Ukrainians don't defend though, they will be annexed.



techstepgenr8tion
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12 Mar 2022, 8:22 pm

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

As if.


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techstepgenr8tion
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12 Mar 2022, 8:24 pm

Konstantin dropping black pills on the Russia Ukraine situation.


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Pepe
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12 Mar 2022, 8:35 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

As if.


"As if" wot?



Kraichgauer
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13 Mar 2022, 7:34 pm

Modern democracies rarely if ever attack their neighbors without provocation. So I hardly doubt that Russia would be in any danger. At least not from NATO or Ukraine.


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Tross
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13 Mar 2022, 8:08 pm

Pepe wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

As if.


"As if" wot?
It's an expression that means, fat chance of that happening.
Kraichgauer wrote:
Modern democracies rarely if ever attack their neighbors without provocation. So I hardly doubt that Russia would be in any danger. At least not from NATO or Ukraine.
Which is proof that Putin's "concerns" about border security are fake. Given that the current Ukraine president is part Jewish, I also call BS on Putin's "concerns" about Ukraine being a Neo-Nazi state. As a result, I have no choice but to pin 100% of the blame for this conflict on him. The funny thing is, he would have come across as less slimy if he just told the truth, which is that he wants Ukraine to be part of Russia again to expand the reach of his dictatorship. :roll: He would still be a monster, but at least he would be an honest one.



shlaifu
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13 Mar 2022, 11:11 pm

Tross wrote:
Pepe wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

As if.


"As if" wot?
It's an expression that means, fat chance of that happening.
Kraichgauer wrote:
Modern democracies rarely if ever attack their neighbors without provocation. So I hardly doubt that Russia would be in any danger. At least not from NATO or Ukraine.
Which is proof that Putin's "concerns" about border security are fake. Given that the current Ukraine president is part Jewish, I also call BS on Putin's "concerns" about Ukraine being a Neo-Nazi state. As a result, I have no choice but to pin 100% of the blame for this conflict on him. The funny thing is, he would have come across as less slimy if he just told the truth, which is that he wants Ukraine to be part of Russia again to expand the reach of his dictatorship. :roll: He would still be a monster, but at least he would be an honest one.


The whole de-Nazification thing is a bit more twisted: Zelenski got into office largely due to campaign financing by one oligarch - but he turned out to be actually somewhat western oriented, somewhat anti-corrupt. Ukraine is very far up on the list of the most corrupt counteies in the world, right next to Russia.

BUT. before Zelenski, there was only one anti-Russian party in Ukraine: Svoboda. These guys are actual neo-Nazis, no doubt about that. and in 2012, they got 40% of votes in some of the western, Ukranian-speaking parts of the country. They're ultra nationalist and anti-Russian.
In 2012, the government was a Russian-puppet-government.
This was overthrown by the western oriented movement together with the neo-Nazis. - the neo-Nazis have fallen out of favour with the public since, and the western-neoliberalism oriented Zelenski came in.
Western media pretends Ukranians have always been this democracy loving people, forgetting to mention the Ukranian ultra-nationalists. Putin calls them all neo-Nazi, not mentioning the (by now) majority of western oriented people.
But only a decade ago, the only serious anti-Russianism came from the neo-Nazis.

well, putting this kind of pressure on Ukraine certainly didn't ease the ultra-nationalists, who were on their way out, actually... But Putin isn't making this up out of thin air, his people wouldn't believe that. Like any good lie, there's a grain of trith in it, so people have something to point to when argueing in favour of it


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The_Walrus
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14 Mar 2022, 5:09 am

shlaifu wrote:

BUT. before Zelenski, there was only one anti-Russian party in Ukraine: Svoboda. These guys are actual neo-Nazis, no doubt about that. and in 2012, they got 40% of votes in some of the western, Ukranian-speaking parts of the country.

This is not true.

In the 2012 elections, Batkivshchyna came second with 25% of the vote, and UDAR came third with 14%. Both were pro-Europe, anti-Russia parties, and neither were neo-Nazis.

Between 2008 and 2011 Svoboda dramatically reduced its emphasis upon ethnic nationalism and instead positioned itself as anti-corruption. I wouldn’t have felt comfortable voting for them myself but I think it is disingenuous to act like large portions of Lviv suddenly gained a neo-Nazi majority.



shlaifu
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14 Mar 2022, 7:47 am

The_Walrus wrote:
shlaifu wrote:

BUT. before Zelenski, there was only one anti-Russian party in Ukraine: Svoboda. These guys are actual neo-Nazis, no doubt about that. and in 2012, they got 40% of votes in some of the western, Ukranian-speaking parts of the country.

This is not true.

In the 2012 elections, Batkivshchyna came second with 25% of the vote, and UDAR came third with 14%. Both were pro-Europe, anti-Russia parties, and neither were neo-Nazis.

.





Image
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Svoboda-2012.png
[url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svoboda_(political_party)
[/url]

you're right, though, Svoboda was not the only anti-Russian party. And the have both softened as well as fallen almost into obscurity.


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Misslizard
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14 Mar 2022, 10:11 am

Let’s all hope it doesn’t come to this.
https://thebulletin.org/2022/03/read-th ... t_03102022


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Fnord
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14 Mar 2022, 10:19 am

Image



Tross
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14 Mar 2022, 4:54 pm

shlaifu wrote:
Tross wrote:
Pepe wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

As if.


"As if" wot?
It's an expression that means, fat chance of that happening.
Kraichgauer wrote:
Modern democracies rarely if ever attack their neighbors without provocation. So I hardly doubt that Russia would be in any danger. At least not from NATO or Ukraine.
Which is proof that Putin's "concerns" about border security are fake. Given that the current Ukraine president is part Jewish, I also call BS on Putin's "concerns" about Ukraine being a Neo-Nazi state. As a result, I have no choice but to pin 100% of the blame for this conflict on him. The funny thing is, he would have come across as less slimy if he just told the truth, which is that he wants Ukraine to be part of Russia again to expand the reach of his dictatorship. :roll: He would still be a monster, but at least he would be an honest one.


The whole de-Nazification thing is a bit more twisted: Zelenski got into office largely due to campaign financing by one oligarch - but he turned out to be actually somewhat western oriented, somewhat anti-corrupt. Ukraine is very far up on the list of the most corrupt counteies in the world, right next to Russia.

BUT. before Zelenski, there was only one anti-Russian party in Ukraine: Svoboda. These guys are actual neo-Nazis, no doubt about that. and in 2012, they got 40% of votes in some of the western, Ukranian-speaking parts of the country. They're ultra nationalist and anti-Russian.
In 2012, the government was a Russian-puppet-government.
This was overthrown by the western oriented movement together with the neo-Nazis. - the neo-Nazis have fallen out of favour with the public since, and the western-neoliberalism oriented Zelenski came in.
Western media pretends Ukranians have always been this democracy loving people, forgetting to mention the Ukranian ultra-nationalists. Putin calls them all neo-Nazi, not mentioning the (by now) majority of western oriented people.
But only a decade ago, the only serious anti-Russianism came from the neo-Nazis.

well, putting this kind of pressure on Ukraine certainly didn't ease the ultra-nationalists, who were on their way out, actually... But Putin isn't making this up out of thin air, his people wouldn't believe that. Like any good lie, there's a grain of trith in it, so people have something to point to when argueing in favour of it
Ah, I see. I actually know nothing of Ukraine's politics, so thanks for the lesson. As a roughly 1/4 Ukrainian though, I'm still very much anti-Putin regardless though, and it sounds like he didn't actually have a justified reason for the invasion, so while enlightening, my position remains unchanged. At the very least though, you've explained how he's able to convince the Russian people to side with him, so props.



hmk66
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09 Jun 2022, 6:50 am

...Ukraine will bomb Moscow and St. Petersburg! It will get or already got long-range missiles from the west.

The NATO want Russia to be destroyed. A Russian request to be a member of the NATO has been rejected in 1999, when Putin asked. Once a bad country, always a bad country, also when the communism is gone since Gorbachew?



carlos55
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09 Jun 2022, 8:03 am

Fnord wrote:
Image


Is that a picture of Margret Thatcher? Sure looks like it :D


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Fnord
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09 Jun 2022, 8:05 am

The best thing for Russia is to lose the war, because they would never win the peace.