Pope - Homosexuality "is not a crime," gay sex is "a sin"

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ASPartOfMe
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27 Jan 2023, 5:59 am

CBS News

Quote:
Pope Francis has called laws criminalizing homosexuality as fundamentally "unfair," making it clear that in the mind of the leader of the Catholic Church, "being homosexual is not a crime."

The pontiff addressed discrimination against the LGBTQ community, his own health and future plans, and the passing of Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI, among other things, in a wide-ranging interview with The Associated Press published Wednesday

"We are all children of God, and God loves us as we are," he told AP reporter Nicole Winfield at his Vatican residence.

Francis reiterated, however, church teaching that engaging in homosexual activity is sinful.

"It's a sin," Francis said, adding: "Let's make the distinction first between sin and crime."

Significantly, the pope clarified that discriminating against others was also sinful, saying: "It's also a sin to lack charity with one another, so what about that?"

Catholic Church teaching says that gay people must be welcomed into the church and treated with respect and kindness, despite the fact that homosexual acts are considered "intrinsically disordered."

Francis has not changed this teaching, and in 2021 the Vatican doctrinal office decreed that the church could not bless same-sex unions because "God cannot bless sin."

However, Pope Francis has repeatedly championed homosexual rights and advocated for inclusion of LGBTQ people in Catholic life.

Francis said the church "must" work to get unjust laws abolished around the world.

Same-sex sexual acts are considered crimes in some 67 countries, mostly in Africa and the Middle East, according to the Human Dignity Trust organization. In 11 of those countries, punishment can include the death penalty.

More than a dozen U.S. states still have laws against sodomy, despite the Supreme Court declaring them unconstitutional in 2003.

The pope said that some bishops from countries that criminalize homosexuality support the laws because they're part of the local culture, and he called on those bishops to undergo a process of "conversion," in order to welcome LGBQT people into their ministry "with tenderness."

The pope also blasted a movement in Germany called the "Synodal Path," in which bishops and lay people are examining the possibility of controversial church reforms such as allowing priests to marry, and permitting female deacons and church blessings for same sex couples.

While Francis didn't specifically address the issues under discussion, he discredited the process as neither serious nor helpful, and said it was being led by an "elite" and did not represent "all the people of God."

Francis, 86, also addressed questions about his health, revealing that the diverticulitis that necessitated an operation in 2021 had returned. He said the small knee fracture that forced him to cancel trips and use a wheelchair had healed without surgery, crediting laser and magnetic therapy.


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27 Jan 2023, 10:46 am

Christianity is politically neutral ("Render onto Caesar what is Caesar's...), but this is another sign of religon shifting from authoritative to casual. Low risk, low reward liberalism.



aghogday
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27 Jan 2023, 1:34 pm



Living in a Locality That Once Held The Guinness World Record in That
Book, For the Most Churches Per Capita; Not Surprisingly, Sadly the One

Represented Now By Matt Gaetz (YucK) in Matters of Politics too that

Go As Far As Shaming Women For Their Weight And Lonely Millennial

Women As Well On Public TV; Yes, Even the Evening Local

News; Not Surprisingly As Well As A Young Person Not
Reaching College Age Until 1978, in A Junior College

in A Small Two Story Building That Also Played A Role
of School In Elementary School, Just Up the Hill in Walking
Distance From the Down Town River Banks of that Blackwater

River i am Raised; And my Mother Too as the Same Two Story Building

on 'Canal Street' Housed Her High School In the 1950's Too; Yes True,

It Wasn't Until i Graduated From That Junior College And Progressed on Over to the

University of West Florida, Where And When, i First Met Someone in 'Real Life' Who Identified

As Either Buddhist (Not Christian) Among Asian Foreign Exchange Students; And The One Isolated

Young American Woman
Identifying As Atheist; Yes,

Working Across From me
At the University Bookstore,
Putting Those Magnetic Strips

in Books of So Many Dam Pages

to Avoid Theft ALL DAY LONG;

Nearly as Boring as Being A Research
Associate in Archaeology, Bagging And Tagging
Bones and Charcoal ALL DAY LONG; Just Like that
Summer Spent Digging ALL DAY Long, Along With Doing

Janitor at Night; Yep, The Third of Three Part Time Jobs Taking
A Full School Load too For Triple Degrees At Once in Anthropology,
Social Sciences Interdisciplinary, And Health Science, So i Could Better Understand

What i Was Missing On the Autism Spectrum Then Yet to Be Diagnosed With Asperger's

Syndrome; That Didn't Even Exist Then As A Label, Until Decades Later of Course for me,

After A Most Severe

Experience of

"Autism Burn-Out"
That Almost Took me to
my Grave, Shut-in 66 Months, With 19 Medical
Disorders Then; Yep Almost Killing me for Real

As i Surely Exceeded my Social Capacity to Live
in An Ordered Enough Way to Survive With All the
Other Mechanical Cognition Work Duties Assigned to me then;

Yet i Digress A Bit; Yet It's Important to Understand A Deeper

Story of the Human Condition in All Its Diversity, So We may Learn

From It and Perfect A Greater Union of Humanity With Most Respect

And Least Harm For All The Diversity That makes Up Our Human Nature's

And the Rest of Nature too;

Sadly In Those Days (Oh God
NO! NO! Information Highways!)

THere Were Fewer Avenues

to Escape The Ignorance That
Often Leads to the Most Harming,
Raping, Maiming, And Killing of the

Diversity of What Makes Life Even Possible Now.

Of Course, Humans By Very Nature As Social Animals

Bond and Bind Over Common Ideologies and Symbols

As Both Become Sugar Pills That Enhance Health and Well Being

to The Material Reducing Elements of Neurochemicals and Neurohormones

in Synergy of Feelings and Senses That Make Up Our Emotions For Real That Are

Actually Healing in Both Affect and Effect As Science Shows, 'These' Precede Most Every

So Called 'Rational Decision' or 'Irrational Decision' We Continue to Make to Survive and Even Thrive;

Evolutionary Speaking,

As Social Animals,

Being A Part

of the Social Group

In Integral Ways of Bonding

And Binding, Per the Human Condition
of Shared Ideologies and Symbols; Indeed That

May Be the Literal Difference of Not Only Thriving

in Well Being Yet Surviving At All; Yet STUFF Has Changed

As Now Folks Can, Will, And Do Rely on Technological Advancements

To Assist them Over and Above, Just an All Hands Human Effort to Get By in Life;

Yes, to Survive
And Even

Thrive;

And Yes, A Once
Bonding and Binding
Force of An Organized Religion,

Has Almost Unlimited Sources Now New

of Competition to Draw Their Target Audiences

Away From a Once Theocratic Monarchial Dictatorship,

Popes and the Such Once Played; And Others Still Similarly Play;

Yes, in Terms of Countries Still Under Theocratic Control Today.

Politics and Religion Are Still Close Bedfellows As the Last Few

Years Has Showed More Than Ever in the United States; Of Course, There

Is Some Desperation on Both Parts in Certain Political And Religious Affiliations

in Bed Together

As They Are Losing

Their Target Audiences

Under Control and Even

Subjugation and Mastery as
Practical Slaves; Yes, to FREEDOM OF CHOICE; God Yes,

YeS, A WHOLE BUFFET OF CHOICES, WHERE ANY YOUTUBE

CHANNEL MaY HOUSE A NEW SPIRITUAL OR SECULAR RELIGION

IN TERMS OF WHATEVER BONDS AND BINDS HUMANS TOGETHER TO

FEEL THAT WARM BELONGING THAT ADDS TO HEALTH AND WELL BEING;

OF COURSE,

Unless They
are Bonding and
Binding on the
Nocebo Affects
And Effects of

Doomsday Cults And
The Such as That With

All the Conspiracy Theories

That Any Manipulative Human
Beings Might Employ to Control,
Subjugate, Master And Slave Other Human

Beings As Pawns for Selfish Gains, Leaders May
Reap off Of the Blood, Sweat, And Tears of Slaves

Building

'Pyramid
Schemes

For Them;'

The Papacy is One Place

Of Politics in Religion That

The Pope Still Holds Absolute

Monarchial And Dictatorship

Control Beyond Reproach of Any

Human Being on Earth; So Yes, it's Good

News When the Pope Says Homosexuality is Not

A Crime As That Does Have the Potential to Actually

Reduce Harm to Other Human Beings of Natural Diversity;

(Yet What the 'Church' Still Calls A 'Sin'; A Condition of A Disordered Way
of Being Yet Truly 'Face Palms, Forest THicK' in the Desert oF iGNoRaNCE STiLL)

So Yes When Still in Rome Under The DictatorShip of Absolute Monarchial Rule;

Ya Take the New Crumbs That Truly Heal as Every New Crumb May One Day

Create The

Bread of

LoVE Real

iN Peace For All;

(No Matter Which Body
Part Touches What in
Adult And Mutually Consensual Ways)

The Catholic Church Lost A Lot of Its So-Called
Moral Authority With the Free Reign of Pedophiles

Among Its Ranks; 39 Percent of the Church Still Sits
on the Fence of Leaving and Never Coming Back; And

70 Percent of the Actual Folks Who Go, No Longer Believe

That The Eucharist Is Even Real in Terms of the MaGiC Ceremony
The Priests Do Changing the Bread and Wine into the LITERAL 'Sugar Pill' Body

And Blood of the Story of Over A 2000 Year Old Corpse As Crucified AS Such

By Story Again; Yet of Course, With No Words Written By The 'Super Hero' at All; All Second
Hand And Thousands

More Told

Around A Round
Table Originating

With The Roman Catholic
Empire That is Slowly Failing

in Gaining More Target Audience

Members and Losing What They Have;

There Are Just Better Options Than Ignorance;

We Are No Longer Held Captive in Localities Without

Touch For What is True or False in Life For Real; AND It's True,

Humans By Very Nature, Enhance Their Well Being in All Ways When

They Commune Together in Dance And Song to Celebrate This Existence Newly Now;

For A Lot of Folks;

That Dance And

Song; That Communion

oF LoVE iN Peace is MiSSinG;

And That is Part of Human Nature

too, Vital to All of Our Well Being;

20 Percent of the United States Identifies

As So Very Lonely; The Greatest Poverty is Not Understanding

Our Natures, the Natures of Others, and the Rest of Nature

In all of What

Diversity and

Change Still Brings;

Yet When Science Shows
That The Average Human
Attention Span is Less than

A Gold Fish; Yes, Less than
3 Seconds; Where is There to Go

to Bond And Bind For Hours With

Others in LoVE iN Peace, Where Even

Any External Substance is Not Required; Not
Even A Piece of Bread or Yes, A Glass of Wine

to Rise up in the SPiRiT Real; The HeART Real
iN Mind And Body SoUL Whole Altogether Free...

SMiLes, i Am Not Waiting For HiSToRY to Change;

i Dance And
Sing Free Wherever

i Go; Some Folks Join
In And That's Enough for me;

Whether it Be Inside the 'Temple;'

Or With the Birds, The Bees, And Other
Furry Creatures in A Real Eden Just Outside

my Back Door For Real As Pan Will Become NaTuRE ALL Free...

The Bottom And Top Lines Are Do Most Respect, Least Harm; LoVE iN Peace; Gay Folks
Don't Have to Go to A Church That Doesn't Respect All Of Their Humanity; God Yes, Including

(Oh Dear Lord, Unless They Are Trapped By Parents and Other "Loved Ones" And 'Forced' to Go)

Their Behaviors in the United States
And Other Freer Countries New Now

That Bring Them LoVE iN Peace;

Of Course if The Church Did, 'They'
Might Gain New Members; Yet Indeed in Closed Minded
Ways, Lose Those Who Don't Wanna See Inclusion That Way;

Again The Bottom Line, Not Unlike the Story of 'Muhammad'

Who Improved Life For Women; Yet Still Left Much to Be Fixed Centuries Ago;

Saving One Life Is Worth A Lot; If the Church Wants to Continue to Exist; It Will

Drop the Rest
of the Ignorance

And Join Human Kind Whole....

Hey, When It's Their Job, Status, And

Power, At Stake, They Just Might Do It...

With No Target Audience They Go Away...

Meanwhile, i'm Gonna Dance and Sing Like

A Child in Communion of Peace and Love;

And Change All the Words oF iGNoRaNCE into

Peace and LoVE Naked Enough Whole Complete iN PLaY

For me at Least New Now With SMiLes...

And Sadly, the Catholic Church

Where Internal Studies Show that
Up to 58 Percent of Priests Are of
Homosexual Oriention; They Will Continue

To Exclude Part of Their Human Nature From Being AND ACTuaLLy DoinG;

Sadly, Often 'They' are the Ones Most Trapped in Purgatory Through Hell in Church;

Or The Ones Who Hide What they Do in Shadows Of Faux Guilt For Being Nature Free...

When Lies Become

Truth,

Humans

Do Suffer For Real

And Even Celebrate

Their Misery in 'Voodoo' Nocebo Ways...

-YucK

Yet For Real THeRE iS Hope, Faith, Love
And Believing, in Actual Doing Free in Flow
of Water, Waves, Ocean Whole Trees, Roots,

Branches

Vines LoVE RiSinG
Leafs iN Peace For Real

As Even Death Feeds Life For Real...

-me



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Silence23
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27 Jan 2023, 2:47 pm

"Love is a sin
With best regards, your religion"



Aspiegaming
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27 Jan 2023, 5:52 pm

Everything in the a bible is a sin. Have you even read it? Technically, we're not supposed to go to the bathroom.


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enz
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27 Jan 2023, 8:50 pm

not the worst thing if two consenting adults decide to have sex.......



naturalplastic
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29 Jan 2023, 8:51 am

What would have the Pope say?



Cornflake
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29 Jan 2023, 9:55 am

Pope Francis wrote:
"We are all children of God, and God loves us as we are," he told AP reporter Nicole Winfield at his Vatican residence.
He should have stopped right there.


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29 Jan 2023, 2:33 pm

Elton John should be Pope. He wears almost as many rhinestones. This would be a perfect solution to the problem with homophobia in the Church.

Of course, someone who’s younger and has more sex appeal might be even better.

Sex appeal is the primary thing I look for in a religious or political leader. It’s a nice distraction when they are saying something heinously dull.



Honey69
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29 Jan 2023, 4:25 pm

He's entitled to his opinion.


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TwilightPrincess
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29 Jan 2023, 4:35 pm

Honey69 wrote:
He's entitled to his opinion.


And we are entitled to critique it, especially since, as a Pope, his opinion will hurt a lot of people - much more than your average bigot.



Tim_Tex
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29 Jan 2023, 11:04 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Elton John should be Pope. He wears almost as many rhinestones. This would be a perfect solution to the problem with homophobia in the Church.

Of course, someone who’s younger and has more sex appeal might be even better.

Sex appeal is the primary thing I look for in a religious or political leader. It’s a nice distraction when they are saying something heinously dull.


Younger and has more sex would be better.

The whole abstinence-celibacy thing is why I could never be in the clergy.

Also, if you pull a thorn out of the Pope's butt, he'll grant you three wishes.


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Last edited by Tim_Tex on 30 Jan 2023, 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Aspinator
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30 Jan 2023, 12:03 am

I don't feel religion has learned the fact that their concern should end with their nose. What gives them the right to condemn (guilt-trip) someone else's behavior simply because they don't like it. All people are children of God. An old song states it best: "Everyone is beautiful in their own way"



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30 Jan 2023, 12:25 am

Pope clarifies homosexuality and sin comments in note

Quote:
Pope Francis has clarified his recent comments about homosexuality and sin, saying he was merely referring to official Catholic moral teaching that teaches that any sexual act outside of marriage is a sin.

And in a note Friday, Francis recalled that even that black-and-white teaching is subject to circumstances that might eliminate the sin altogether.

The Rev. James Martin, an American Jesuit who runs the U.S.-based Outreach ministry for LGBTQ Catholics, asked Francis for clarification and printed the pope’s handwritten response on the Outreach website late Friday.

In his note, Francis reaffirmed that homosexuality “is not a crime,” and said he spoke out “in order to stress that criminalization is neither good nor just.”

“When I said it is a sin, I was simply referring to Catholic moral teaching, which says that every sexual act outside of marriage is a sin,” Francis wrote in Spanish, underlining the final phrase.

But in a nod to his case-by-case approach to pastoral ministry, Francis noted that even that teaching is subject to consideration of the circumstances, “which may decrease or eliminate fault.”

He acknowledged he could have been clearer in his comments to the AP. But he said he was using “natural and conversational language” in the interview that didn’t call for precise definitions.

“As you can see, I was repeating something in general. I should have said: ‘It is a sin, as is any sexual act outside of marriage.’ This is to speak of ‘the matter’ of sin, but we know well that Catholic morality not only takes into consideration the matter, but also evaluates freedom and intention; and this, for every kind of sin,” he said.


Aspinator wrote:
An old song states it best: "Everyone is beautiful in their own way"


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30 Jan 2023, 4:23 am

I never did get the concept of sin anyway. Something that somebody's deity hates, I suppose. Not really my problem then, as I don't think there are any deities except in people's imagination. I get morality - a set of rules designed in the hope of minimising harm. If that's different to sin, then hard luck sin. You can't sensibly operate two different codes of conduct. So for me I choose morality, and I don't see any harm from somebody being gay. Other people's sexual orientation is none of my business anyway, unless they're after a relationship with me.



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30 Jan 2023, 8:18 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Elton John should be Pope. He wears almost as many rhinestones. This would be a perfect solution to the problem with homophobia in the Church.

Of course, someone who’s younger and has more sex appeal might be even better.

Sex appeal is the primary thing I look for in a religious or political leader. It’s a nice distraction when they are saying something heinously dull.


Younger and has more sex would be better.

The whole abstinence-celibacy thing is why I could never be in the clergy.

Also, if you pull a thorn out of the Pope's butt, he'll grant you three wishes.


That’s probably what’s wrong with the Pope: not enough sex.