Ivar Lovaas

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Have you ever heard of him and his methods? And if so, what do you think of them?

I was reading this article http://www.neurodiversity.com/library_screams_1965.html and I found myself in a state of near shock from the methods that ranged from conning and abusive to borderline torture that were used on autistic children in order to "cure" them.

Lovaas claims success in his methods, but the question begs to be asked, is putting autistic children through hell to "cure" them worth it?

Yes it is shocking but one thing I would like to point out is that this particular research is from 1965.

The same sort of thing still happens, though, whether in the name of "curing" or to make people "behave" (I suspect in these people's minds they're the same thing). I frequently read posts by kids in "homes" who report being hit by staff members.

I'm aware that similar things still happen as an attempt to 'cure' autistic children- however, I feel that if we are going to discuss such things we should look at up-to-date research. Psychological research was notorious for being unethical in the 60's (and earlier).
What ever subject you're going to look at it only makes sense not to base your arguments on outdated research.

Mel

Not exactly, this abuse became so bad over time that it took legislation to be passed in 1989 to stop it. Lovaas used these methods right up to this point and criticised their abolishment. Lovaas has never shown any remorse or apoligised to any of his 'successful' patients who are now either homeless or institutionalised.

The law is not retroactive and Lovass cannot be prosecuted, neither can his staff UCLA or Lovaas Institute.

The last recorded instance I can find of Lovaas using electric-shock therapy on Autistic children was his now famous 1987 study into Autism-ABA. He certainly doesn't discourage parents from smacking their Autistic children as many others do. He was also a great believer in the now debunked 'Holding-Therapy', which was deemed abusive in 1997 and proclaimed quackery.

There are certainly issues with ABA today and up-to-date material is available. We can have a discussion on that.

I agree. ABA is a controversial subject which tends to provoke strong reactions (not without reason) - using aversive 'treatments' like electric shocks is still around, notoriously at the Judge Rotenberg Center in Massachusetts. In my opinion the misapplication of ABA techniques is child abuse, and the goal of having a child 'indistinguishable from his/her peers' is anathema to me. While I can sympathise with parents faced with a low functioning autistic child who is self injurious and/or profoundly handicapped, I am sceptical of the benefits of ABA and it concerns me the weight thrown behind it by bodies such as Cure Autism Now and the Canadian Autism Society. Some food for thought regarding ABA -

http://users.1st.net/cibra/index.htm

The accounts by well meaning parents of the damage inflicted on their children by 'professionals' left me in tears. Children are not lab rats, and autistic children have the same right to be treated as human beings with a will and needs of their own as non-autistic children.

Dunc

I agree that there are still issues with ABA today- this wasn't in dispute- I was simply mentioning that there must be more recent research (or information about this issue) for us to debate. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Mel

The Misbehaviour of Behaviourists: Ethical Challenges to the Autism-ABA Industry

I am of the school that believes that Asperger's and Autism can be MANAGED, not CURED. It is a syndrome/learning disability/what have you.

I really hate Asperger's, autism, and learning disabilities in general being called "illnesses," because that implies they can be cured. You can live with Asperger's and have a relatively happy, well-adjusted life.

I do not think it is appropriate to put a child through hell to get them "cured," however, kids with Asperger's or Autism must--and can be--taught how to deal with other people, the world, and life in general. If this means give the kids medicine to make life more comfortable for them, by all means, do it!

I agree Hilary, up to a point. ASDs are not 'diseases' which can be cured, let alone a 'plague' as the current rhetoric being issued in the name of peddling treatment would have parents believe. I support all efforts to help kids with autism/Aspergers to communicate effectively, to cope with stress, to achieve their full potential - as autistic people, not as 'broken normal' people.

I believe parents have the right to help their children as best they can, including any diet, education programme, medication to help with sleeping problems/depression/anxiety, etc etc. What I take issue with is the goal of 'normalising' autistic kids, in the mistaken belief that a normal child is within waiting to be released. As we know here from our discussions as high functioning adults and teens, the way that we view the world and experience reality is fundamentally different, and no amount of electric shocks or enforced socialisation can replace what is inside with something different and more 'normal'. Parents are being scared into 'treatments' like ABA by the cure industry IMO, as they perhaps lack the information or support to pursue a more enlightened approach to helping their child.

Dunc

I knew that a lot of psychological treatments from the 50s and 60s were harsh, but this was shocking. I thought this was an interesting quote 'Scoldings and stern shakings did nothing. Like many autistic children, Pamela simply did not have enough anxiety to be frightened.' What?! I find that a lot of my autistic behaviour comes from trying to soothe anxiety.

In current times, I think that when psychologists and organisations are trying to find a 'cure' for autism, they actually do mean find a way to 'manage' autism. I have seen children with 'low-functioning' or 'classic' autism. If they were my child I would definately try to find a way to help them socialise, communicate, and get through to people. Isn't that sort of like 'curing' them? I have AS, and I believe that a person can't become 'less autistic', but I do believe that it is necessary for people to socialise in a world which requires us to be social. Whether one calls it 'curing' or 'managing', it is all about achieving the same results.

(Though, obviously not the way Ivar Lovaas went about it. )

I see your point bec - and I totally agree with your position as regards helping kids to function in society, as I said in my previous post.

I do not think that this is what is meant by curing, ABA style though - it is basically a system of behaviour modification aimed at extinguishing autistic behaviours and conditioning 'normal' responses.

Also, the aims of such organisations as CAN include researching a cure for autism and 'prevention' - i.e. a medical cure/genetic screening, quite distinct from management of the condition. Nice, eh?

Dunc

Wow, that's a nightmare. Getting these children to interact and be productive members of socity seem like a good cause, the more extreme ways to the goal just sounds wrong. I am in no way against physical punishment if a child does something wrong like beats up a sibling, lies, stealing... etc, but torturing the child when they are just getting an answer wrong on a test... uh that is just plain disturbing.

I won't deny that there are results, how could you not get results when you basically force the child to act the way you want them to act. Its basically like training a dog... or forcing a slave to do what you command.

I generally agree that the more extreme anti-social behavior should be changed. But it sounds like the changes they want to make generally change the way these kids fundamentally are... and changes what makes them unique. The line between anti-social behavior and uniqueness is fairly obvious to me, this procedure looks like it just wants to change everything.

This is an interesting comment, it reminds me of some of my childhood situations. I remember when I was very forcably made to eat some sort of cooked vegetable... I think carrots or peas. I didn't want to eat them because I didn't like the texture... As much as my parents tried to force me I didn't want to eat them. After a very long time of arguing I eventally ate them... and then I gagged on the texture of them, it was fairly traumatic.... to think over something as silly as eating some vegetables.

Other times, as much as my parents tried to put fear into me I wouldn't even react. I had zero emotional response towards most of it... frustrating my parents. Sometimes if they got really mad I would laugh involuntarily. That led to some weird situations.

I agree with you duncvis. I think finding a medical cure and genetic screening is bad. I was just saying that some people use the words 'cure' and 'manage' interchangeably. But, I don't think that anyone could extinguish my autistic traits! I have learned to cover them up when I need to, though.

The parents were the most shocking part of this article. I am sure that it would be difficult to have a child with autism, but ALL children are difficult. The parents were worse than that Lovaas guy.

This article has seriously ticked me off!

As a follow on to this, there was a segment on "Today Tonight" about autistic children being given electric shocks in an institution in the US. Some parents were asked if they would consider this okay if they had autistic children with challenging behaviour. Most said yes but then they were asked if they would consent to being shocked with a current a fraction as strong as that being applied to the children.

All but one said then that they would not subject their children to such things. Surely there has to be some more humane way of handling children who constantly self-harm or have severe meltdowns. The scariest thing is the parents in the US are paying big money to have their kids at the Judge Rotenberg Centre.

I read an old Life magazine article about this guy and his torture techniques. I'm glad my parents hadn't heard about them at the time, they would have gladly dragged me in for treatment like that.

I read that he was demonstrating his therapy skill with a little girl once and that she promptly grabbed and squeezed his testicles very hard. And that after that he always had a table between him and his patients. I wonder if that's true.

Does anyone know where to access articles of what became of the children he treated after they grew up?