Why do people consider no afterlife "more logical"?
I'm not religious, but I'm confused why many people who don't believe in an afterlife cite logic as the reason for their belief.
To me some form of existence after death seems just as likely as no form of existence after death. We don't have any data about what people experience after they die. The universe is huge and complicated, and we know very very little about it.
I know that all evidence shows us that human thought requires a brain, so if the brain dies with the rest of the body then logically consciousness as we know it also ends when we die. But I see no reason why there couldn't exist other forms of consciousness, or "life", that exists independently of the physical brain. Maybe there is some other element, similar to what people call the soul, that continues or emerges after death.
(That said, I do understand why people say that it's logically unlikely for any particular afterlife to exist. What are the odds that, for example, the Christian heaven as described by humans in the Bible is what people will experience after they die? Very unlikely- it's very specific, and with no evidence. I'm just arguing that the idea of some form of continued existence after death is just as likely as the alternative, with what we know right now)
funeralxempire
Veteran

Joined: 27 Oct 2014
Age: 40
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 30,583
Location: Right over your left shoulder
If consciousness is a result of our brain's normal function, once normal function ceases, so does consciousness.
An afterlife complicates things by requiring a way for consciousness to exist separate from brain function. It's a needless complication.
_________________
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
They have a name for Nazis that were only Nazis because of economic anxiety or similar issues. They're called Nazis.
I don't believe in things which cannot be proven.
If I'm wrong and there is an afterlife, it'll be a nice surprise, but it's not something I believe in. My position would change if I was given adequate proof.
RetroGamer87
Veteran

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,114
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Evidence points the mind being something that exists within and because the brain. That's why brain injuries cause noticeable changes to mind and personality.
Even the most religious person would agree that when the body dies, the brain dies. The dualist argument is that the mind is the product of the soul, not the brain and that as the soul exists outside of the body, it is not killed when the body dies.
If mind came from soul not brain, there would be no changes to the mind after brain injury. But there is so it doesn't. Without something that exists outside the body, there is nothing left of you to go on. Your whole being in contained within your body and when it dies, you die.
You don't experience an afterlife because because after you've died there is no you to experience it.
_________________
The days are long, but the years are short
techstepgenr8tion
Veteran

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,532
Location: 28th Path of Tzaddi
I think it depends on both what data they train their minds with and additionally what kinds of ideas they're willing to entertain to begin with. I also get the sense that religion and metaphysical positions in general are extremely similar to politics in how much people can't stand people who aren't like them but it's pitched up to mythic levels.
I don't believe in an Abrahamic God whose pining over your every move but - I'd consider Neoplatonism as well as some Advaitic / experiential interpretations of an Atman, a 'Source', something like the god of Spinoza, Teilhard de Chardin, or Alfred North Whitehead's Process Philosophy, a lot of that makes sense to me and seems to fit the patterns of evidence better than anything else for what I've read, watched, listened to, etc.. I also feel like I've tried to give all sides of the arguments their due ('No you haven't - otherwise you'd agree with me!'
) and - it's a really f'ing violent and sadistic world at ground level, I'm thoroughly compassionate to the types of atheists who'd take that alone and not even have curiosity as to whether there's evidence for continued consciousness because they think of it in terms of the Christian structure, they reject the Christian structure, and there's a sense that if modern technology is doing all of this work and religion and philosophy 'never did nuthin', you could feel that way for a while until you take a look at how our culture is getting (short version - it's a big Moloch trap in the Slate Star Codex context, it's that thing some native Americans call 'Wetiko', where zero-sum games and destruction of trust run a group into insanity and out of existence).
_________________
The loneliest part of life: it's not just that no one is on your cloud, few can even see your cloud.
Humans evolved from inanimate chemicals.
Do those chemicals have an afterlife? What about the simplest forms of life, that could barely be called cells? Single-celled prokaryotes? Protists? Fungi, plants, sponges?
When people suffer serious brain damage (either through injury or disease), their personality can change and they can lose memories. This suggests that your personality and memories are stored in the brain, and that the death of the brain will cause those things to be lost.
Is it possible to definitively rule out that there is some undetectable "spark of life" that allows humans to survive brain death and retain some sense of identity? No. But practically, as far as we can tell, people cease to exist when they die.
WilliamK1997
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 13 Jun 2023
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 64
Location: London
To me some form of existence after death seems just as likely as no form of existence after death. We don't have any data about what people experience after they die. The universe is huge and complicated, and we know very very little about it.
I know that all evidence shows us that human thought requires a brain, so if the brain dies with the rest of the body then logically consciousness as we know it also ends when we die. But I see no reason why there couldn't exist other forms of consciousness, or "life", that exists independently of the physical brain. Maybe there is some other element, similar to what people call the soul, that continues or emerges after death.
(That said, I do understand why people say that it's logically unlikely for any particular afterlife to exist. What are the odds that, for example, the Christian heaven as described by humans in the Bible is what people will experience after they die? Very unlikely- it's very specific, and with no evidence. I'm just arguing that the idea of some form of continued existence after death is just as likely as the alternative, with what we know right now)
I don't consider no afterlife ''logical'' i've seen too many NDE's and as contradictory as the accounts are, its fairly certain to me my existence isn't an accident at least. I don't believe in an afterlife, I just don't believe my existence is a mistake either.
WilliamK1997
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Joined: 13 Jun 2023
Age: 27
Gender: Male
Posts: 64
Location: London
Do those chemicals have an afterlife? What about the simplest forms of life, that could barely be called cells? Single-celled prokaryotes? Protists? Fungi, plants, sponges?
When people suffer serious brain damage (either through injury or disease), their personality can change and they can lose memories. This suggests that your personality and memories are stored in the brain, and that the death of the brain will cause those things to be lost.
Is it possible to definitively rule out that there is some undetectable "spark of life" that allows humans to survive brain death and retain some sense of identity? No. But practically, as far as we can tell, people cease to exist when they die.
Have you seen or heard of Near Death Experiences? People like Roger Ebert and Steve Jobs said some weird things at the moment of their deaths, suggesting they could've saw something mystical similar to the ''spark of life'' you quoted and some people with conditions like dementia regaining full capacity of their minds at the point of death and conversing to those around them like normal before shortly dying
Do those chemicals have an afterlife? What about the simplest forms of life, that could barely be called cells? Single-celled prokaryotes? Protists? Fungi, plants, sponges?
When people suffer serious brain damage (either through injury or disease), their personality can change and they can lose memories. This suggests that your personality and memories are stored in the brain, and that the death of the brain will cause those things to be lost.
Is it possible to definitively rule out that there is some undetectable "spark of life" that allows humans to survive brain death and retain some sense of identity? No. But practically, as far as we can tell, people cease to exist when they die.
Have you seen or heard of Near Death Experiences? People like Roger Ebert and Steve Jobs said some weird things at the moment of their deaths, suggesting they could've saw something mystical similar to the ''spark of life'' you quoted and some people with conditions like dementia regaining full capacity of their minds at the point of death and conversing to those around them like normal before shortly dying
Yes, I consider Near Death Experiences to be best explained as hallucinations our brains experience. This explains why they tend to line up with existing beliefs about an afterlife.
People with dementia can have occasional moments of lucidity, nothing to do with death.
It was never going to be testable, was it?
If I was God I’d move in mysterious ways and keep everyone guessing, otherwise there’d be no value in faith.
If you believe in an afterlife you’re never going to find out you’re wrong after you die.
_________________
Steve J
Unkind tongue, right ill hast thou me rendered
For such desert to do me wreak and shame
I won't believe in afterlife until I actually see a ghost myself for real. I want to see a ghost but the best places to see ghosts are places you aren't allowed to go, like abandoned buildings. Yes, you're more likely to encounter paranormal activity in abandoned buildings than graveyards. In graveyards the dead are resting in peace.
_________________
Female
If there is an afterlife, then the afterlife place must be overcrowded. There are more than 8 billion people still alive. How many billions have died? At what point would humans have evolved an afterlife? Neanderthals? Just since Cro-Magnon?
_________________
Semen retentum venenum est
As A Human Being With Degrees in Anthropology, Social Science Interdisciplinary,
And Health Science; With Actual Collegiate Training in Archaeology And Participant
Anthropology Observing; And Actually Doing All of This As A Life Long Hobby in the 'Field
of Life for 63 Years Now; Yes, What Sets Humans Apart Most From Other Animals is We Have
iMaGiNaTioN, We Move Connect And Co-Create Together As Story Telling Animals Who Bond
And Bind Over Similar Ideologies And Symbols; Also Known as Our Politics, Religions, And Philosophies;
If You Are Really Smart About Adapting in Life, You Do What Works To Both Your Advantage and the Advantage
of the Group Effort For Surviving And Thriving You Are Part of; Although, Technology Today Provides Many levels
of Assistance For Real
That Makes Us Much
Less Reliant Upon Each
Other to Both Survive And Thrive;
Although, Longitudinal Studies of Human
Beings Over 80 Years in Span Show Far Away
And Close in General it is Our Warm Human Connections
With Each Other That is the NUMBER ONE FACTOR FOR HAPPINESS IN LIFE;
WELL, CONSIDERING We are Social Animals That Should be Somewhat of a No-Brainer
of Common Sense to Figure Out, Unless We are Too attached to Mechanical Cognition
And 'Things;' Yes, Objects in Our Environments, And Fail to Nourish Our Relationships
With Others Who Share Our Similar Beliefs and Attitudes About Life; Namely, Other Places
Than Home or Work; Yes, 'Third Places,' Championed in A Book By Ray Oldenburg One of
my Sociology Teachers too; As These Places May Include Church, Bars, And Even Bowling in Leagues,
Where Sadly Today,
the Metaphor and
Book of 'Bowling Alone'
is More of An Apt Description
of Our Modern Human 'Conditions;'
Where, the Centers of Disease Control, CDC
Studies Show the Once Happiest Demographic
of Teenage Girls Now has the Highest Levels of
Depression at 57 Percent that Impacts Life Functionality
Negatively, And Even Up to a Third With Suicidal Ideation,
Which Puts Them in the Basement of GAF, Global Assessment of Functioning;
True, Happiness Used to Be Assessed As 'U Shaped' With Greatest Levels of Happiness
In Youth And Then After Middle Age After Most of the Rat Race of Our First World Problems
Are Gone From Life, If We Attain that Level of GAF in Life At Around my Age of Course at 63;
As Still an Anthropology Participant Observer It is True; 'Book Learning,' Is Only Partially Effective
When Studying Human Cultures, Including Their Politics, Philosophies, and Religions As All Three
Are Constantly in Flux and Changing; So, You Gotta Get Out of 'The Ivory Towers' And Actually Participate
With Others to More Fully Understand What Works And What Doesn't Work For Them in Life And How and Why As
Well So Here We Come
After Sufficient Background
to Explore the Issue of 'Why Do
People Consider No Afterlife "More Logical"?
As An Excellent Topic of 'Op' to Discuss on the 'Wrong
Planet' Where We Have A Diversity of Course of Neurodiversity
Where We Have Folks Ranging From Extreme Systemizers Who Also
Believe in Jesus And Heaven and Hell After Life Literally as Such Which Really
Isn't That Surprising As Some Folks 'Think' in more Black and White Terms of Life
And Have Much Difficulty With The Nuances in Life That Will Never Be Fully Measured
By The Scientific Method As Not All Experience is Empirical, Discrete, Observable, And Repeatable;
Like Each Individual's
Process of Subconscious
And Conscious Reality For
Their Inner UniVerses WiTHiN;
(Always Changing in Flux NEWLY NOW)
And YES, A Great Example of This is How
Around 30 Percent of Humanity Studied
Benefits Greatly From the Power of Suggestion
That Hypnosis And the Placebo AND Nocebo Affect and Effect Delivers;
True, Insurance Companies Don't Support Therapies That Don't Work at
Least in Some cases of Humanity For Real; and in the Case of Church Goer's
With The Common Politics, Religions, And Philosophies and Even Choir Music
They Bond and Bind Over Similarly For Greater Warmth in Life And Actual Potentials
to be More Successful in Both Surviving and Thriving Together This Way Helping Each Other Out;
It's Obvious They Are Experiencing the Science Assessed Number One Factor to Reach Happiness in Life
As Long as they Are Accepted in the Group Effort of Their Shared Ideologies and Symbols ThiS Way;
As A Participant
Anthropology
Observer Visiting
the Local Catholic Church
i Will Get to Experience This Today as
(Getting There late After Writing This)
Even Though i am a Bit Odd to Put it as
Gently as i Can and Will Do; i am Well Accepted
Within the Walls of the Church Even Expressing
How i Discern The Attributes of Going to Church A Bit
to a Lot Differently than the Rest of the Folks Attending;
For Instance, Doubt it Not; For the 30 Percent of Folks Who
Actually Believe The 'Sugar Pill' of that Wafer of Bread They
Receive in Communion is Actually Transformed into the Flesh of
Jesus, Not much Different than Folks Who Believe A Sugar Pill Delivered
in Good Faith and Trust By A Doctor is Gonna Heal Them; The Affect and
The Effect Will Be the Similar in Potential Healing for Those Who Have the Ability
to Use the Power of Suggestion That Way to Actual Heal at Least Some Problems in
Life, if Only Reducing Stress and Anxiety That Science Already Shows Reduces Our Wellbeing's for Real.
On the Other Hand, 'The Voodoo' or Nocebo Effect Not Unlike This 'Power of Prayer,' A Placebo Sugar Pill of Jesus
Provides is Just As Real; For the Folks Who Take Hell After Life As Serious As Heaven After Life And Oh Lord, Live a
Life of Anxiety
Worrying they
Are Gonna
Meet Their
Greatest Fear;
Perhaps a Literal
Horned Devil to Literally
Burn them in Hell Forever;
Oh Dear What A Real Nocebo
Voodoo Effect That Makes in Negative
Ways too; Particularly for Glass Half Empty
Human Attitudes All the Way ACross the Lifespan,
Resulting in Affect and Effect of Negative Outcomes in Well Being...
Indeed, It's a Mixed Bag of Benefits of Carrots and Sticks Not Nearly as Much...
Additionally, If you Happen to Be Out of the Realm of What is Accepted in Human
Diversity as that Applies Particularly to the LGBQT Plus Community, Not A Place Ya
Wanna go
For Well-Being
Either Although
Some Churches
Might Accept Even
A Little Brown Dude
Shirtless After A Long Day
of Roofing All Week; True i Was
in Whataburger Last Night, And They
Didn't Turn 'Him' Away for Not Wearing
A Shirt, Kinda Dusty, With a Beard And Long Hair too....
True, He Would Have Never Got in the Catholic Church i Visit Sadly AS Such...
Another Aspect of Focusing on the After Life in Rewards of Heaven and the Such
Is That This Life May Be Denigrated As Second Fiddle to the After Life; And Dear
Lord They Do that Constantly at the Church i Visit and Many Others i Have visited
in my Local
Area that
Once Held
The Guinness
World Record For
Most Christian Churches Per
Capita Where with A Multitude
of Military Installations too; Social
Science Also Assessed This As A Most Difficult
Place for 'Folks Who are Different' to Both Survive and Thrive...
And That's Not Surprising as the Social Scientist Work of Jonathan Haidt
Shows There are Both Innate and Environmentally Produced Differences Among
So-Called Conservative Leaning More Closed Minded Folks and Liberal Leaning
More Open Minded Folks, Where it is almost Predictable as one Group Will See the
Statue of 'David'
All Naked AS Such
At Least Not Very Palatable
To Look at Aesthetically As Art....
While the More Liberal Group May
Not Stick to One 'Small Detail' and God Yes,
Notice More the Gestalt of the Art at Hand in Aesthetic Pleasure...
Interestingly, in the New Testament You Will Find Verses That Are More
Mystical Like the Luke 17:21 Verse That Speaks to You Will Only Find
This Heaven, This Mystical Kingdom of God, Within And If You Look
for it outside
of You, You
Will Surely Get
Greater Lost From
the Real Potential
of Becoming Naked,
Enough, Whole Complete
Within This Way As Well as
Outside, Above, So Below, And
All Around in Oneness of Accepting
All the DarK and LiGHT of Life As Is
to Treasure A Kingdom And Or Queendom of Heaven Now as Greatest Present Gift
And Pursue Our Human Potentials, All of them Loving in Peace Fearless Now For Real...
However, This Is More of An Internally Driven Practice of Course Versus What Relates to the
More Observable, Empirically Assessed, and Repeated External Environments of 'Things;'
And Some Folks Have Greater Difficulty Practicing What They Cannot Easily
Measure With a 'Ruler;'
Problem(s) is They May
Never Seek and Find Now
A Way New to Master the All in
All of the Great Within to Really
Have A Best Life Ever Now WHere
Living is Gift Enough to Die for it Now...
i'm not Waiting For Heaven When i Experience it Newly Now...
i Don't Need Any Sugar Pills to Reach the Essence Yet Sure
i'll Create Sugar Pills to Enhance That Human Potential in Ideologies
And Symbols
i Create Myself
For Real too;
i Co-Create my Life...
i Write Act And Play the 'Depth of my Own Story'...
Some Folks Enjoy More Being Part of Someone Else's
Story; Sure, i Participate As An Anthropology Observer too...
Yet Indeed, i Beware of Certain Practices of the 'Locals' too hehe...
Like Excluding People i Love; If i Could Change That i Would; Perhaps i'll Give it one more try..

_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI
Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !
http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick
An afterlife complicates things by requiring a way for consciousness to exist separate from brain function. It's a needless complication.
Lazy logic.
1. You don't know if consciousness is a result of brain function or not. You just know that there is a correlation of data. You do not know if brains actually cause consciousness, or if consciousness just is in a spectator mode of a brain.
2. If 1 brain gets deleted there are other brains in the world, so there is nothing to suggest that consciousness ends after just 1 brain ends.
3. The only thing to suggest consciousness is trapped into 1 brain is because if someone becomes unconsciousness they don't just teleport into another person. But if the brain is deleted there's nothing to suggest they wouldn't just teleport somewhere else.
Fallacy. You can't see another person's consciousness (with current technology), so there's nothing to suggest that "seeing ghosts" are needed as proof of the afterlife.
Ancient Greeks had the idea that the soul was immortal--that it had always existed, that it somehow got assigned to a body, and goes to Hades after death.
Hindus and Buddhists also have the idea of an immortal soul, that continuously enters new bodies through reincarnation, although the Buddhist goal is to escape the cycle of death and rebirth.
Jews, I think, have the idea that the soul enters the body when the newborn first breathes.
I think that Muslims have the idea that the soul enters the fetus a few months after conception.
If you ask a Christian whether the soul existed prior to conception, the answer will be "it doesn't matter. All that counts is that you believe in Jesus so that your soul can gain entry into Heaven."
_________________
Semen retentum venenum est
Similar Topics | |
---|---|
A wallpaper question: People or No People? |
17 Feb 2025, 9:53 am |
Do people think you are a WAG? |
16 Feb 2025, 10:09 pm |
Why do I think that people are in relationships because... |
11 Feb 2025, 3:16 pm |
Do people really believe in this statement? |
13 Dec 2024, 7:32 am |