Are Jesus and God the same or separate beings?

Post Reply New Topic

As a kid I always thought the Jesus and God were two separate beings and Jesus often referred to God as if he were someone else. If they are separate, doesn't this make Christians polytheists?

So Christianity has this concept called the Trinity, and it's considered a mystery.

Basically, there are three parts of the godhead. Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Three separate persons, but also one being.

Jesus does speak of the Father as being separate, but also, He states that He and the Father are one and that anyone who has seen Him has seen the Father.

Sometimes people say they are one or together with each other when they agree about stuff.

Not all Christian denominations believe in the Trinity. I don’t think there’s as much support for it in the Bible as there is for God and his Son being completely separate individuals.

This wouldn’t make sense if they weren’t separate entities:
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.” - Matthew 3:16-17

Yes, Christians are polytheistic. They have God, Jesus, Satan, angels, demons, saints, etc. It’s sort of like a hierarchy of gods as it was in Ancient Greece and Rome with one clear head god.

It makes sense because Christianity evolved out of local, polytheistic cults.

Sort of interesting although not a precise reflection of the Bible:

If you're Christian they're the same. If you're Muslim he was a prophet. Messianic Jews I'm a bit less sure about - ie. I know they take him as divine son of God but I don't know whether it means precisely the same thing or not (and if it does I'm not sure why it isn't just a Christian orthodoxy like Coptic, Palestinian, Syrian, or other regional believers other than perhaps their dislike of Paul).

Someone please educate me. I never considered Jesus a god. I thought he was an important dude in the Bible, and someone to respect as a philosopher and God's son, but I didn't know he was a god? Same with angels and demons and saints. They're revered but are they gods, enough to make Christianity polytheistic?

I thought there was God as the head dude, and everyone else was just really special.

It depends on your specific viewpoint and interpretation of the Bible. I think there's more support in the Bible for Jesus being the Son of God than God or part of a trinity.

Jesus and angels all live forever and have supernatural powers. They seem like lesser gods to me in ways that are similar to some other divine beings in ancient religions and cults. I consider Christianity polytheistic for this reason.

I've never read or studied the Bible, but I've been to church a lot for the sensory kick lol. Thanks for the info because I never really thought about it. I know Jesus is important but I don't even think of him living forever despite the fact his picture is plastered all over stained glass windows and Bible propaganda. I thought everyone who dies "lives forever" in Heaven, even mere mortals, so what's the difference? Is it all about genealogy? He wouldn't even have God's genes if he was immaculate. I guess it's all about the dying on the cross thing, like he earned a special role? Or is it patronage?

There's definitely a hierarchy in the Bible which includes angels. These scriptures in 1 Corinthians talk about a hierarchy between God and Jesus:

2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you. 3 But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Angels in the Bible appear to have a rank and order. The angel hierarchy is supported by Jude 9, when the angel Michael is called an “archangel”—a title that indicates rule or authority over other angels. Angels often serve as God's servants and messengers in the Bible and use their powers in different ways. They aren't just playing harps and stuff.

It gets pretty far out there, though. It depends on what parts of the Bible people believe in. There's a lot of trippy stuff in Revelation.

I always liked St Michael for personal reasons. I prayed to him once and it worked. It's a long story. I like St Peter because of his story and being crucified upside down. I attend St Peter's, actually.

I get that saints are special and they have a hierarchy, but I just didn't realize it all could amount to polytheism. As far as I knew there was only one God, but of course I don't really pay attention to what happens in sermons and I mostly show up for the smells.

Thanks for the info. I see your point, but just didn't know.

Christians do not consider themselves polytheistic and would most often be offended by the idea. God says that there's no god but him (Isaiah 45:5), but he also says that he's love (1 John 4:8). I don't think that either of those things are backed by evidence in the Bible, but believers will often disagree. That's okay. We don't have to agree about everything.

It's mostly through John that you get Jesus as the incarnation of the Father.

I am the true vine.
I am the way, the truth, and the life.
If you have seen the father you have seen me.

All of that stuff points at the... language really fails and yeahyeahyeah, Platonism was 400BC, Neoplatonism was 400 AD, there was no 'Neoplatonism' at the start of the first century by that name but monotheism was already making its rounds and places like southern Italy, Greece, and later Alexandria were melting pots for religious and spiritual philosophy (where you also got Gnosticism, Hermeticism, etc. out of). For the lack of a better term John made Jesus an emanation of God, although perhaps missing the possibility that literally everything is.

It is just a way of ducking the accusation of polytheism.

I think that Jews generally regard Christians as idolaters, and prefer Islam for being more monotheistic. Although, the angels and ginis are immortal, and might as well be considered as gods in the classical sense.

The Old Testament is chock full of Angels. They are not an artifact of the New Testament. So angels are just as Jewish as they are Christian. So if you're claiming "angels are really low level dieties ergo Christians and Muslims are polytheists...then Jews would also be polytheists by that logic.

Well, yes, of course.



Yahweh was the national god of the Hebrews. Other groups of people worshiped other gods, and the existence of the other gods was not denied. In fact, per the first commandment, you could go ahead and worship other gods, as long as you didn't worship them before Yahweh. Yahweh first, and then whatever you want.

Thats not what that passage means. Or its a highly unorthodox interpretation.

It IS likely that universalism was later (the belief that only one god existed at all for the whole Universe). They still thought that other gods existed.

It DOES mean "other gods may exist" but it means "we Hebrews are only allowed to worship our one god, and we never worship our neighboring tribes' gods". Not "check in with Yaweh first, and then go ahead and worship whomever you want".

This is a pretty well agreed-upon diagram.

Individual dnominations often disagree on the specifics of the Trinity, but most sects believe in a tripartite nature of Jehovah. Modern exceptions are Unitarians, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses. Non-trinitarian denominations were persecuted before the modern period after the Council of Nicaea in the 4th century. Early Christian groups who denied the Trinity include Arians, adoptionists, and modalists.
People have bickered over the Trinity for almost as long as Christianity has existed. It does not help that there is no one chapter or verse that explicitly spells out the Trinity as it is traditionally understood; it has primarily been a result of cross-referencing supporting information in a variety of verses.