Trump deserves to be killed but it would be a very bad thing

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ASPartOfMe
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18 Sep 2024, 6:22 am

The Assassination Wish Fulfillment - John Podhoretz for Commentary

Quote:
The reaction to the second assassination attempt on Donald Trump’s life has been bizarre, to say the least. News stories since have retailed claims that, eh, the shooter couldn’t have had a clean shot at him anyway—and, most startling on the website of the “Taste Dies in Darkness”
Washington Post tonight, that Trump was warned years ago he could be an assassination target on a golf course and that nonetheless he persisted in hitting the links. In other words, Carol Leonnig, Josh Dawsey, and Isaac Stanley-Becker are effectively saying in a disgraceful story that functions as an ass-covering exercise for the now entirely discredited U.S. Secret Service, Trump was just asking for it.

Indeed, the superstructure of most major media coverage today was that since Trump had spent the week talking anti-migrant trash, he had thereby been nothing but a net contributor to the country’s parlous atmosphere. This, notwithstanding the fact that Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine announced this afternoon that the threats which shut down the schools in Springfield, Ohio, were hoaxes emanating from outside the country—”33 threats, 33 hoaxes,” he said. Not to worry; the CBS Evening News noted no such fact in its coverage of the matter tonight. Indeed, Norah O’Donnell took issue with the fact that Trump had said the rhetoric out of the Biden-Harris-Democratic camps had played a role in the increased danger he finds himself in by citing the very narrative DeWine had just told the American people seemed to be a dirty trick coming from a bad actor abroad.

Donald Trump is blaming Democrats for inflaming political rhetoric,” O’Donnell said, “but the former President’s own words seem to be increasing the threat of political violence in Springfield, Ohio. That’s where a false and ugly accusation against Haitians—thousands of whom are legal permanent residents—is impacting every day life.”

The impact on daily life, I need to say a third time, seems to have been the result of pot-stirring involving foreign actors who posed no actual threat to anyone—as opposed to Ryan Routh, who sat in a blind for 12 hours near the Trump golf course waiting to take his shot. What is the point here? The implicit idea of the link between the assassination and the Ohio anti-migrant talk was that Trump had somehow been asking for it. What else are we to take away from the merger of the “they’re eating the dogs” garbage Trump has been peddling and the fact that a 58 year-old man in a pink shirt was determined to try and alter world history from a sniper’s nest?

Let’s talk straight. The reason so many people in this country seem determined not to consider the profound seriousness of a potential new age of assassination—a return to the destabilizing period that tormented this country and the West between JFK in 1963 and the Reagan/John Paul II attempts in 1981—is that it represents a dark wish fulfillment for so many people.

Donald Trump has refused to go away. He lost the 2020 election and wouldn’t admit it, wouldn’t stand down, wouldn’t stand for a peaceful transition if there could be a chaotic and dangerous one. And the minute the next president began to serve, he began to run again—something no one in his position as ex-president had done from within his own party for 130 years. People hate him. They revile him. They fear him. They despise him. What they would like, more than anything, is for him to go away.

A great many people, and most of the nation’s elites, secretly or not so secretly wish they could see the result sought by would-be killers Routh and Cheeks. And while they know they must pay lip service to the fact that assassinations are bad and wrong and shocking and all that, they simply cannot muster up the emotion of horror. That’s what’s missing here from the coverage and discussions of these two attempts: Horror. Because they’re not horrified.

This is the darkest kind of fantasy, because it can be fulfilled—and the consequences would be unthinkably dangerous for the future of this country.

Those who wish Trump gone think the future with him in it as president for the second time will be a nightmare come true. But they do not begin to grasp the nature of the future in which Trump is removed from life and history with an act of violence that—though they would be outraged at the very suggestion—would be understood by history as an emanation of their dark, raging wish. It would be “the monkey’s paw” overtaking the world.

I understand that wish. I wish he’d gone away as well. I wish he’d accepted the results of 2020, I wish he hadn’t done the things that helped inspire January 6, I wish he hadn’t made disgraceful moves in Senatorial races that gave his rivals enough control in Washington to pass ruinous and bad legislation, and I wish he had allowed the Republican party to move on and find new leadership. His presidential candidacy is an unhealthy thing for his party and his country, though it’s probably more a manifestation of the country’s ill political health than the cause of it.

But, dear God, would it be worse for us if these assassins had succeeded. And will it be worse for us if one were to succeed between now and election day, or after, should he win. So much worse, infinitely worse—because that event will tear the country to shreds. That’s not even remotely metaphorical.

You all think he’s asking for it. What you are asking for is a future straight out of Thomas Hobbes.

As said in the title I do think he is asking for it. The first consequence comes that to mind is MAGA riots with more lethal weapons the BLM rioters of 2020. Every attempted assassination never mind successful ones increases the chances for more assassination attempts and increases the chances of more authoritarian laws being passed. An atmosphere where assassinating politicians is more normalized increases the chances that decent politicians get killed.

If Trump gets killed we will probably get President Vance.

Be careful what you wish for indeed.


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Tim_Tex
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18 Sep 2024, 10:12 am

The only viable solution would be to dismantle and ban the GOP in its current form, and imprison far-right politicians at all levels.

This will not affect those on the right of center. If Liz Cheney, Larry Hogan, Adam Kinzinger were the norm rather than outliers, this wouldn't have been an issue. But the current GOP decided to cater to those with severe persecution complexes and those who think all our problems started once the 1950s ended.


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naturalplastic
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18 Sep 2024, 10:54 am

"be careful what you wish for"
Aint that the truth. Vance would be worse than Trump.

In my dreams...the GOP decides that if the Dems can swap out a candidate for being senile ...that they can too.
And that tomorrow we get the announcement the Trump AND his senile pick for running mate: Vance have stepped down, and that Maryland's Larry Hogan is now the GOP candidate for POTUS.

And his running mate will be...Liz Cheney?...Niki Haley?...or maybe...a hundred pound bag of fertilizer with a happy face painted on it...even that would better than Vance. :D


https://youtu.be/y-5XgoRSJgM



aghogday
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18 Sep 2024, 12:32 pm



"Priests Of Our Own Cosmos Now"

Challenge of Creating Our Own Order
Out of Reality Is the Human Propensity to

Bring Both Nightmares and Dreams to Fruition

In The Depths of Our Stories DarK Thru LiGHT

As Trump Recently
Related as i Paraphrase

His Reality to "It's More Dangerous
to be a Mafia Boss than to Be a Race Car Driver"

As True Stray Bullets Travel Faster Than Oncoming

Ferarri's and the Such Reminiscent of the Last Episode

of "The Sopranos" Where "Don't Stop Believing" by 'Journey'

Was the Last Song on the Juke Box Chosen By 'Tony' Before

The 'Lights

Went out

in Georgia
And the Devil
Didn't Return' Yet of Course
That Was only Fiction and in
'Real Life' the Portly Mafia Fictional

Figure Dropped Dead From a Massive Heart Attack...

Such Is Life 'Ya Gotta Know When to Hold 'em And When to Fold 'em...'

i Suppose Trump Believes
They'll Be 'Time Enough to
Count His Cards After He Goes Away...'

Trump Doesn't Deserve to Be Killed Anymore than
'The Lion King' Who Eats The Cubs of His Competitors...

Just Don't Get Caught Preying on a Herd of Elephants hmm...

i've Seen What A Herd of Elephants Can Do to a Lion; Indeed, Be Careful for
What Kings Wish for...

As the Meek
Naturally
Continue
to Inherit the
Earth Making
Fewer Enemies of Course...

If i could give Trump and Elon
MusK A Teaspoon of what i experience
All Free oF LoVE iN Peace Always Now They'd

Shed Their Billions God Yes Even
Coming Trillion and Turn over

A Real New
Leaf of

A Real
Living
Thriving Tree...

iN Effortless Wu Wei Ease...

Meanwhile They Conquer the
World With Little to No Organic Soul...

sad
just
sad...

THeir Living is a Kind
of Death That i Wish
For No One Not Even The Really Dead...

And as Far as Vance Goes He's Still Living
in That Vicious Cycle of 'Little Man Disease' Down South

Usually Generated
By Big Daddy's
AS Such
With
Little
Organic

Soul

Not Much
Different
Than Trump
Or MusK iN DeeD...

Still A Deep South 'Thing'
And Everywhere else now and then

Real 'Toxic Patriarchy' Does the Living Dead

As that Surely Applies to Males and or Females As Not So Well..:)



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Harmonie
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18 Sep 2024, 1:03 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
"be careful what you wish for"
Aint that the truth. Vance would be worse than Trump.

In my dreams...the GOP decides that if the Dems can swap out a candidate for being senile ...that they can too.
And that tomorrow we get the announcement the Trump AND his senile pick for running mate: Vance have stepped down, and that Maryland's Larry Hogan is now the GOP candidate for POTUS.

And his running mate will be...Liz Cheney?...Niki Haley?...or maybe...a hundred pound bag of fertilizer with a happy face painted on it...even that would better than Vance. :D


The thing I fear is that people give non-Trump Republicans too much credit.

After saying some truths about Trump while running her campaign, Haley turned around and kissed the ring. She spouts out absolute nonsense like "for my children" as to why she supports Trump. She is so fake. Even setting that aside, while she may be better on some things (like NATO, IIRC), she is still extreme. She is not a moderate Republican, much less a moderate by any means. She just looked better standing next to the unhinged man who tried to steal the election, incited an insurrection, and stated he wants to be a dictator. Haley still believes in many of the tenants of the vile, authoritarian Project 2025, and thus she is a great danger in of herself.

We absolutely cannot afford to give the benefit of the doubt to any of these extremist right wingers just because they're not Trump. The overton window has shifted over so far to the right that moderate Republicans by USA standards are far right. That ideology is toxic and has no place in our government. Just stop and think about any Republicans views. Are they still against LGBT rights and freedoms? Are they still against abortion? Are they for blending the church and state? How likely are they to support Project 2025 (not by their own admission, but by their beliefs otherwise)? The Romney I voted against in 2012 was already really bad on all of the above issues and beyond (aside from P2025, which, of course, didn't exist).

We must NOT cede ground to extremists just because they aren't Trump. The right wing is completely bonkers. Trump is not an exception, he is a monster of the party's own creation. He just says the quiet part out loud.


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naturalplastic
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18 Sep 2024, 2:52 pm

No argument about Nikki Haley. She is a piece of garbage...that only looks good standing next to Trump and Vance.



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19 Sep 2024, 4:30 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
The Assassination Wish Fulfillment - John Podhoretz for Commentary
Quote:
This, notwithstanding the fact that Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine announced this afternoon that the threats which shut down the schools in Springfield, Ohio, were hoaxes emanating from outside the country—”33 threats, 33 hoaxes,” he said. Not to worry; the CBS Evening News noted no such fact in its coverage of the matter tonight.

I'm a little puzzled by this. Aren't most bomb threats hoaxes?

CBS News should have reported the discovery that the bomb threat was found to be a hoax, but I don't see this as the kind of "notwithstanding" oversight that invalidates the entire story. An actual bomb would have been even bigger news than the mere threat thereof, but even hoax bomb threats are a real problem for people in the threatened buildings, and for the local police.

And politicians making racist remarks are still a real problem, even if the bomb threats they may lead to turn out to be hoaxes, as most of them will likely be.

That the hoax came from outside the country does raise interesting questions as to the source and motive of the bomb threats, but it is still likely that the threats were somehow inspired (even as, perhaps, a false flag?) by Vance's remarks. Why else would a foreign actor be bothered to pick on the town of Springfield, Ohio?


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19 Sep 2024, 4:40 pm

Harmonie wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
"be careful what you wish for"
Aint that the truth. Vance would be worse than Trump.

In my dreams...the GOP decides that if the Dems can swap out a candidate for being senile ...that they can too.
And that tomorrow we get the announcement the Trump AND his senile pick for running mate: Vance have stepped down, and that Maryland's Larry Hogan is now the GOP candidate for POTUS.

And his running mate will be...Liz Cheney?...Niki Haley?...or maybe...a hundred pound bag of fertilizer with a happy face painted on it...even that would better than Vance. :D


The thing I fear is that people give non-Trump Republicans too much credit.

After saying some truths about Trump while running her campaign, Haley turned around and kissed the ring. She spouts out absolute nonsense like "for my children" as to why she supports Trump. She is so fake. Even setting that aside, while she may be better on some things (like NATO, IIRC), she is still extreme. She is not a moderate Republican, much less a moderate by any means. She just looked better standing next to the unhinged man who tried to steal the election, incited an insurrection, and stated he wants to be a dictator. Haley still believes in many of the tenants of the vile, authoritarian Project 2025, and thus she is a great danger in of herself.

We absolutely cannot afford to give the benefit of the doubt to any of these extremist right wingers just because they're not Trump. The overton window has shifted over so far to the right that moderate Republicans by USA standards are far right. That ideology is toxic and has no place in our government. Just stop and think about any Republicans views. Are they still against LGBT rights and freedoms? Are they still against abortion? Are they for blending the church and state? How likely are they to support Project 2025 (not by their own admission, but by their beliefs otherwise)? The Romney I voted against in 2012 was already really bad on all of the above issues and beyond (aside from P2025, which, of course, didn't exist).

We must NOT cede ground to extremists just because they aren't Trump. The right wing is completely bonkers. Trump is not an exception, he is a monster of the party's own creation. He just says the quiet part out loud.


My point is that ultimately, the GOP will have to go back to the days of Ike Eisenhower and Nelson Rockefeller--when they supported fair taxation and weren't beholden to the Evangelicals--if they ever want to stay relevant.

One of my favorite quotes of Barry Goldwater was "Somebody should kick Jerry Falwell in the nuts".


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ASPartOfMe
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19 Sep 2024, 9:54 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
The Assassination Wish Fulfillment - John Podhoretz for Commentary
Quote:
This, notwithstanding the fact that Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine announced this afternoon that the threats which shut down the schools in Springfield, Ohio, were hoaxes emanating from outside the country—”33 threats, 33 hoaxes,” he said. Not to worry; the CBS Evening News noted no such fact in its coverage of the matter tonight.

I'm a little puzzled by this. Aren't most bomb threats hoaxes?

CBS News should have reported the discovery that the bomb threat was found to be a hoax, but I don't see this as the kind of "notwithstanding" oversight that invalidates the entire story. An actual bomb would have been even bigger news than the mere threat thereof, but even hoax bomb threats are a real problem for people in the threatened buildings, and for the local police.

And politicians making racist remarks are still a real problem, even if the bomb threats they may lead to turn out to be hoaxes, as most of them will likely be.

That the hoax came from outside the country does raise interesting questions as to the source and motive of the bomb threats, but it is still likely that the threats were somehow inspired (even as, perhaps, a false flag?) by Vance's remarks. Why else would a foreign actor be bothered to pick on the town of Springfield, Ohio?


That it comes from outside the country is newsworthy because it does raise the suspicion of intentional meddling with the intent of furthering divisions.

Off Topic
Back in the ‘70s bomb threats were routine. One year in my high school we had them seemingly every third and sixth period. At first it was great we got to go outside in the middle of the school day. But it was not so good when the cold and rain hit, and my grades in those classes suffered. We were never scared, we knew it kids trying to get out class. The next year apparently the administration came to their senses and there were no bomb threat breaks.

After the first few times it was negligence to keep on giving kids who wanted to skip classes what they wanted. Now despite bomb threats still being mostly hoaxes it is gross negligence not to take every threat bomb or otherwise deadly seriously.


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