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ASPartOfMe
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01 Jan 2024, 4:19 pm

In other threads I have argued that it will take until Gen Z gets power for that to happen. In a video Mona posted the hostile to current Israel guest was talking about how Trump would be the worst thing to happen for many reasons. When the conversation got around to Israel I expected him to say Trump will triple down on the support for Lukid but he fumbled around. I was confused at first and then the obvious hit me.


It sounds preposterous. The reasons it won’t happen are obvious. Orthodox Jewish right wing family, Christian fundamentalist base, and it goes against everything he has said and what he did as President.

So what is my reasoning for seemingly going off the rails?

His first administration had a lot of neoconservatives, a second administration is more likely to be populated by paleoconservatives.

He would like to do business with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis keep things close to the vest what can be said is that they want to throw the Palestinians under the bus but fear their own populations reaction if they are public about it. They may have come to the conclusion that Gaza made anything other their old hostility towards Israel unpalatable. They may say to Trump if you want to do business with us, if you don’t want us to mess with the worlds oil supply you have to publicly cut them off.

But the real reason will be purely to spite the Jews for voting for the Democrats. For years he has been critical of Jews for not paying back his Israel support. If anything Jewish Voice For Peace and the like will further convince him Jews are wackos that will turn around and stab their own people in the back. Can anybody put it beyond Trump to do that? After all the consensus is that the second Trump administration will be all about revenge.

And that will be why the BDS people, the anti zionists, and yes the antisemites might have their wildest dreams come true from the person they least expected it from.


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BillyTree
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01 Jan 2024, 5:44 pm

I think it would be really stupid to vote for Trump in the hope he "cuts off Israel". The best chance to clear up this mess is from South Africa's genocide case against Israel at International Court of Justice over Gaza war. Hopefully when the pressure builts up the US will decide it's in it's best interest to not being complicit in what Israel is doing.


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naturalplastic
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01 Jan 2024, 6:33 pm

Pure speculation.
Its just as plausible to predict that Trump would pander to both the Saudies and Israel by starting a major land war with Iran.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 01 Jan 2024, 6:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

sodepressed
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01 Jan 2024, 6:37 pm

If there was anyone remotely, possibly sane ala McCain, a contrast in opinions in parties, especially in a two-party system, is vital... and both clamoring for genocide, whether internal or external, is horrible... what I don't get is why Biden is seemingly going out of his way to lose the progressive vote (and, it seems to me, it's mostly progressive jews who vote D, cons, who also support Likud, vote R)... what sickens me (besides... everything about this) is how... despite being, generally, sensible in all other areas, Ds somehow seem to turn into bloodthirsty demons around this topic... but only secretly. Well, not when addressing it directly, but they mostly don't, as opposed to how Rs keep going on about how they want to kill everyone constantly... I just don't get any of this... I often read the most 'liked' tweets from Ds, and it's so depressing... like, even fred_guttenberg, who generally seems sensible and actually had a child shot to death... wants children far away also dead? Like, how... makes no sense (and, it's not like he's one of those who still supports the nra after, seems to be for regulations generally, so makes no logical sense). Only thing someone I was talking with once came up with when talking about this is that it's because of their ethnicity and their country of origin who perpetrate it, but that absolutely makes no sense to me either, and sounds vile, as in no way would I support a genocide committed by my country of origin...



ASPartOfMe
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01 Jan 2024, 9:05 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Pure speculation.
Its just as plausible to predict that Trump would pander to both the Saudies and Israel by starting a major land war with Iran.

Yes it is pure speculation, that is why I used “might”. He might not bother with a land war and just give the Israelis permission to nuke Iran.


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ASPartOfMe
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01 Jan 2024, 9:18 pm

sodepressed wrote:
If there was anyone remotely, possibly sane ala McCain, a contrast in opinions in parties, especially in a two-party system, is vital... and both clamoring for genocide, whether internal or external, is horrible... what I don't get is why Biden is seemingly going out of his way to lose the progressive vote (and, it seems to me, it's mostly progressive jews who vote D, cons, who also support Likud, vote R)... what sickens me (besides... everything about this) is how... despite being, generally, sensible in all other areas, Ds somehow seem to turn into bloodthirsty demons around this topic... but only secretly. Well, not when addressing it directly, but they mostly don't, as opposed to how Rs keep going on about how they want to kill everyone constantly... I just don't get any of this... I often read the most 'liked' tweets from Ds, and it's so depressing... like, even fred_guttenberg, who generally seems sensible and actually had a child shot to death... wants children far away also dead? Like, how... makes no sense (and, it's not like he's one of those who still supports the nra after, seems to be for regulations generally, so makes no logical sense). Only thing someone I was talking with once came up with when talking about this is that it's because of their ethnicity and their country of origin who perpetrate it, but that absolutely makes no sense to me either, and sounds vile, as in no way would I support a genocide committed by my country of origin...


The Jewish vote has always gone overwhelmingly to the Democrats. Most Jews are both pro zionist and liberal to progressive on most other issues.

Biden has never been a progressive.


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02 Jan 2024, 5:47 pm

Will any of it really matter to the rest of the world That much? trump likes to project by saying that if the Democratic Party is re-elected that Americans "won't have a country anymore," but what's far more likely is that if trump takes the reigns again and goes on a revenge spree/does any of the stupid crazy s**t he keeps promising he'll do, besides literally crowning himself king-dick-tator(tot), the USA won't be a country anymore in the eyes of the rest of the world as no one will be able to take them seriously for re-electing a faschist clown reality tv star business bankrupting conman to "lead," them. Everyone will have had plenty enough of trump and the USA's s**t by then and will simply shun America and let her burn internally with their 400 Million gun strong civil war while the rest of the world moves on with anything more interesting or productive to do. It may just be one big "Well, the USA is over.. whatever, who cares what they say and do about this or that or anything anymore since they're so completely unserious they need to just fade out of the limelight while sane humans carry on with global politics and the like without them." Maybe it'll be a time for the British Royal Family to act Royal again and take on some sort of leadership role, or for someone else to step up and lead if the USA just gives up like that.


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02 Jan 2024, 7:32 pm

Simple. Trump hates Jews, and so do his supporters.


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02 Jan 2024, 7:58 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Simple. Trump hates Jews, and so do his supporters.


His son-in-law Jared Kushner is Jewish (married to his daughter Ivanka) and Trump seemed to be on terms with him during his time as president. Jared also played a part in the US government deciding to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel which caused a mess in itself.


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02 Jan 2024, 8:02 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Simple. Trump hates Jews, and so do his supporters.


RDF is right, this is a take that greatly oversimplifies things.

His views are likely a mix of stereotypes and his opinions are likely heavily connected to how useful individual Jews, or a portion of the Jewish population can be to him personally.

One of the things his supports tend to do is project their views upon him and all he needs to do is not correct them.


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goldfish21
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02 Jan 2024, 8:08 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
He would like to do business with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis keep things close to the vest what can be said is that they want to throw the Palestinians under the bus but fear their own populations reaction if they are public about it. They may have come to the conclusion that Gaza made anything other their old hostility towards Israel unpalatable. They may say to Trump if you want to do business with us, if you don’t want us to mess with the world’s oil supply you have to publicly cut them off.


If the Saudis want the Palestinians gone then why would they want the USA the withdraw military support from Israel that’s wiping out the Palestinians? :?

Saudis already prepaid jared kushner $2 BILLION for a say at the table in what happens. Your post just seems contradictory in what you’re predicting, though.


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02 Jan 2024, 9:07 pm

Here's what my cards say about Israel's future and they seem to imply that if a woman gets the US presidency then Israel will find itself in financial trouble. :chin:

Image

8 of Clubs: A covetous man, also warns against speculations.

Ace of Hearts: The Home (or in this case "The Homeland" aka Israel). Next to The Clubs it means feasting and merrymaking, next to The Diamonds it means money and distant friends.

3 of Diamonds: Quarrels, lawsuits, and domestic disagreements.

4 of Club: Cautiousness against inconstancy or change of object for the sake of money.

7 of Clubs: Promises good fortune and happiness, but bids a person to beware of the opposite sex.

So there you go! Trump becoming president would work in Israel's interest, but if a woman becomes president (like Haley or Harris) it will somehow spell trouble for Israel.


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02 Jan 2024, 11:06 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Simple. Trump hates Jews, and so do his supporters.

Nah. My dad was a massive Trump supporter but he also loved all things Israeli because that's they're the protagonists of the Bible.

I didn't have the heart to tell him his favourite Rothschild conspiracy theory was founded in antisemitism.


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ASPartOfMe
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03 Jan 2024, 6:51 am

goldfish21 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
He would like to do business with Saudi Arabia. The Saudis keep things close to the vest what can be said is that they want to throw the Palestinians under the bus but fear their own populations reaction if they are public about it. They may have come to the conclusion that Gaza made anything other their old hostility towards Israel unpalatable. They may say to Trump if you want to do business with us, if you don’t want us to mess with the world’s oil supply you have to publicly cut them off.


If the Saudis want the Palestinians gone then why would they want the USA the withdraw military support from Israel that’s wiping out the Palestinians? :?

Saudis already prepaid jared kushner $2 BILLION for a say at the table in what happens. Your post just seems contradictory in what you’re predicting, though.

The Saudi Royal Family are afraid of their own Muslim population being enraged over Gaza coming after them if they are seen as anything less than pro palestinian and anti Israel. That was the reason they funded the PLO and funded fundamentalist schools for decades.

Daddy seems to be having some sort of conflict with Ivanka.

For the reasons you listed and some I listed above it is not logical for him to turn on Israel. But we are talking Donald Trump here. A guy who expects unrequited loyalty, and makes spur of the moment decisions on gut instinct.


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04 Jan 2024, 3:06 am

ASPartOfMe wrote:
And that will be why the BDS people, the anti zionists, and yes the antisemites might have their wildest dreams come true from the person they least expected it from.


So you're willing to flush American democracy down the metaphorical toilet in the vague hope that Trump will withdraw support from Israel?

That would be akin to swatting a mosquito by using a nuclear weapon.



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04 Jan 2024, 3:46 am

David1346 wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
And that will be why the BDS people, the anti zionists, and yes the antisemites might have their wildest dreams come true from the person they least expected it from.


So you're willing to flush American democracy down the metaphorical toilet in the vague hope that Trump will withdraw support from Israel?

That would be akin to swatting a mosquito by using a nuclear weapon.

I really don't think he's willing.
He said "might," have their wildest dreams come true.. as in, it's possible/not impossible; not that he wants it to happen or would help facilitate it's potential with his vote.


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