Abusive policing, and what can be done about it

Page 1 of 2 [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,204
Location: New York City (Queens)

11 Oct 2024, 5:28 pm

Unfortunately, police misconduct is a significant problem here in the U.S.A.

This thread is intended to discuss the issue of abusive policing, and what can be done about it, with an emphasis on documented, verifiable tasks.

First, some sources of relevant data:

- Mapping Police Violence, a project of Campaign Zero
- National Use-of-Force Data Collection on the website of the FBI. See also National Data Collection on Police Use of Force (PDF) by the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
- Data-Backed Outrage: Police Violence by the Numbers, Jul 07, 2020, on the website of Vera (an NYC-based group of "advocates, researchers and activists working to end mass incarceration")
- Police are Still Hiding Abuse, NYCLU, Mar 1, 2022 .

As for what can be done about it, here are some resources I dug up just now:

- What works to reduce police brutality: "Psychologists’ research is pinpointing the factors that lead to overly aggressive, biased policing—and intervention that can prevent it," on the website of the American Psychological Association.
- Preventing Police Violence With New Approaches to Policing on the website of Brady United
- Police Misconduct: A practical guide by the Civil Rights Litigation Group, Jan 30, 2024
- Fighting Police Abuse: A Community Action Manual by the ACLU, December 1, 1997

Yesterday I started a related thread in the members only section about some relevant personal experiences of people I personally know, plus some relevant personal impressions of mine. I got some flak for not talking about documented, verifiable facts. So, here's a thread for documented, verifiable facts, and discussion thereof.

More later.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,204
Location: New York City (Queens)

11 Oct 2024, 9:13 pm

I've been reading some online articles about foot patrols.

It is has long been my impression that foot patrols are a good way both to deter crime AND to reduce the likelihood of abusive policing.

The articles I've been reading mostly confirm my impression:

- Engaging Communities One Step at a Time: "Policing's Tradition of Foot Patrol as an Innovative Community Engagement Strategy" (PDF) by Brett M. Cowell and Anne L. Kringen, published by the Police Foundation,
- Foot patrol works. More of it will reduce violence: "Foot patrols are not a silver bullet, but when implemented in careful, thoughtful ways in violent crime hot spots, they can reduce and prevent violence," by Jerry Ratcliffe and Dr. Evan Sorg, Police 1, January 05, 2021.
- Police foot patrols: 3 pluses and 3 pitfalls: "Police agencies across the country are turning back to foot patrols, which largely went out of favor with the arrival of the radio car — here are three positives and three negatives to consider," by Doug Wyllie, Police 1, September 28, 2016.

Alas, one reason why many police departments don't do foot patrols is that they are expensive.

This is one reason why I really don't like the slogan "Defund the police!" Abusive policing is the cheap and easy way to do policing. High-quality, ethical policing is much more labor-intensive, hence more expensive. Foot patrols are just one example of how and why this is the case.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


bee33
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Apr 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,713

11 Oct 2024, 10:55 pm

The police have a culture of contempt, harassment and abuse of the public. It's built in. If it was the case of bad apples then the rest of the police would speak out against the abusers and demand that they be stopped, but it's just the opposite. I don't know what the answer is, but it's rotten at its core and won't be fixed by applying small tweaks.



Carbonhalo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,024
Location: Musoria

12 Oct 2024, 12:05 am

Why is it that there are higher penalties for killing a police officer than for killing a civilian when you consider they're being payed for the danger?
In my eyes they're combatants and the penalties should be less.



Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,204
Location: New York City (Queens)

12 Oct 2024, 2:03 am

bee33 wrote:
The police have a culture of contempt, harassment and abuse of the public. It's built in. If it was the case of bad apples then the rest of the police would speak out against the abusers and demand that they be stopped, but it's just the opposite.

I agree that the problem isn't just a few "bad apples." I think the problem is systemic. Nevertheless, I'm inclined to believe that various tweaks to the system can help a lot.

I think the tendency to cover up for each other may be, at least in part, an unfortunate by-product of a kind of workplace camaraderie that cops naturally develop by working together and facing danger together. For that reason, we will always need checks and balances, e.g. civilian complaint review boards.

As for cops having a general attitude of contempt for the general public, it has long seemed to me that cops who do foot patrols have a lot less of this attitude. (Or, at the very least, they become a lot better at hiding it.) This may be because foot patrols involve not just law enforcement, but community engagement, i.e. interacting with people, which may help to keep cops mindful of the fact that they are dealing with fellow humans.

The above-listed article Engaging Communities One Step at a Time seems to say this also:

Quote:
New Haven Police Department – New Haven, CT

Located along the Eastern Seaboard, New Haven, Connecticut, is 18.68 square miles with a population of approximately 129,000 residents. The population is approximately 31.8% White, 35.4% African-American, 27.4% Hispanic or Latino, and 4.6% Asian (U.S. Census Bureau, 2010b). New Haven has a sworn police force of 442 officers.

The New Haven Police Department has been using foot patrol as a way to reconnect and build trust with its community since 1990, but in 2011, the department rededicated its policing strategy to foot patrol. What is particularly innovative about New Haven is that the department has committed to putting all rookie officers on foot patrol for one year after they graduate the academy in order to immerse them in the community they serve.

[...]

The foot patrol officers perform a wide range of engagement-related actions while on patrol. In residential areas of the city, foot patrol officers routinely greet and initiate conversations with residents in front of their homes or out on the sidewalk, and in downtown, officers go into businesses and develop relationships with owners and employees. Downtown foot patrol officers also routinely interact with the large homeless population in the area and work to not only develop a rapport with them, but also to provide them with information on services and shelters available to them. Officers have tried to take interactions with community members to the next level by playing basketball with neighborhood kids, purchasing food for persons in need, passing out candy to kids, providing Thanksgiving baskets to families, giving Christmas presents, and handing out their own cell phone numbers to people on their beat, all in an effort to bridge the gap between the community and the police.

When necessary, foot patrol officers tailor their actions to address identified crime problems in the community. If, for instance, there is a home burglary in a neighborhood walking beat, foot patrol officers will follow up with the family a few days later to see how the family is doing and offer any assistance they can. When confronted with a string of thefts from vehicles, two foot patrol officers created pamphlets to inform residents about the most commonly stolen items and to offer tips on theft prevention, and they organized a community meeting to discuss the issue. In downtown, officers have focused on public drinking enforcement to address the large number of intoxicated individuals routinely in the area.

Seems to me that all this community involvement both (1) humanizes the community in the eyes of the cops, and vice versa, and (2) makes law enforcement a lot easier.

But it's labor-intensive, hence expensive, which is why a lot of police departments don't do this sort of thing.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


bsickler
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker
Yellow-bellied Woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 11 Sep 2024
Gender: Male
Posts: 57
Location: Cascadia

12 Oct 2024, 12:37 pm

Train police officers in a martial art and strictly enforce minimum fitness requirements.

Change police policies from being “gun first” back to being more hands-on, and enforce strict documentation requirements when guns are used. This will heavily discourage police from immediately going for their gun.

Set up numerous Japanese-style police boxes throughout cities.

Force those police officers to provide mundane public services. Giving tourists directions, handling lost and found, etc like Japanese police do. Force them to be public servants.

The only way police culture will change in the US is if police are not allowed to use their guns except in true emergencies, have to go hands-on with drunk people more often, and are forced to do mundane stuff for ungrateful tourists. Make policing “boring” and it will eventually sort itself out.



Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,204
Location: New York City (Queens)

12 Oct 2024, 2:47 pm

bsickler wrote:
Train police officers in a martial art and strictly enforce minimum fitness requirements.

Change police policies from being “gun first” back to being more hands-on, and enforce strict documentation requirements when guns are used. This will heavily discourage police from immediately going for their gun.

Agreed.

bsickler wrote:
Set up numerous Japanese-style police boxes throughout cities.

Maybe. There are probably other things we could learn from other countries, too.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


Jakki
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2019
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,936
Location: Outter Quadrant

12 Oct 2024, 3:23 pm

This brutality stuff.....goes all the way from the command structure down , I unfortunately discovered by circumstances places upon me and my late husband . But it was not a well populated area...And They were misinformed but wished to triple down on their mistake and recruited .The Building inspect to help them engage in harassment of our home of 30+ years and us ..One of the first homes in the area....So hope some method comes about to make these police type be held responsible for their actions with amuch higher degree of punishment for violating the public trust.
Meanwhile the people fabricating the rumours to the Police about us ..Were looting our home ,everytime time we had to be away for me to go to the next city over to get medical treatment..Even saw their adult ex con grand children selling our belongings at the local swapmeet.And of course, The Sheriff claimed they needed 2 hours to even respond. Long after the looting grandchildren had pakked up and left the swapmeet....
This criminal behaviour by law enforcement is endemic to these types of legal structuresl .They all support each other the Blue code .


_________________
Diagnosed hfa
Loves velcro,
Quote:
where ever you go ,there you are


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,204
Location: New York City (Queens)

12 Oct 2024, 5:07 pm

More about foot patrols:

First, some history: The police experiment that changed what we know about foot patrol by Liz Tung, November 15, 2019.

The experiment, in Philadelphia back in 2008, showed that foot patrols in high-crime "hot spots" were effective in reducing crime, as well as effective in improving community relations (i.e., more trust and less police violence).

New York City had lots of foot patrols back when Bloomberg was mayor, primarily in busy business districts and near busy subway stations.

Unfortunately, in predominantly-Black neighborhoods here in NYC, any good community relations that might normally result from foot patrols were more than offset by the tactics of "Stop and Frisk" (often for no good reason) and overly aggressive crackdowns on petty crimes, in the name of what was then called "Broken Windows" policing (the idea that frequent crackdowns on petty crimes would deter major crimes like robbery and murder).

More about this in Shattered: The Continuing, Damaging, and Disparate Legacy of Broken Windows Policing in New York City (PDF) by the NYCLU (no copyright date, but apparently published in 2017 or 2018).

I live, apparently, in what the above document calls a "lightly-policed" neighborhood, although my neighborhood isn't mostly-white. Here, we have lots of immigrants from all over the world.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


enz
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Sep 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,173

13 Oct 2024, 4:14 pm

I've never been to America but I assume rich people who call the shots have a better experience with the cops which makes it hard to change things



RetroGamer87
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jul 2013
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,060
Location: Adelaide, Australia

13 Oct 2024, 5:12 pm

bee33 wrote:
The police have a culture of contempt, harassment and abuse of the public.

Increasing their funding isn't going to change that one bit.


_________________
The days are long, but the years are short


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,204
Location: New York City (Queens)

13 Oct 2024, 5:31 pm

enz wrote:
I've never been to America but I assume rich people who call the shots have a better experience with the cops which makes it hard to change things

Probably true.

On the other hand, rich people also have less need for the police to protect their communities, because they can afford private security guards.

Probably the people with the greatest need for police protection are the owners of small mom-and-pop stores (of which there are many, here in NYC) that can't afford security guards.

That's why we need cops on foot patrol in business districts -- if only they wouldn't harass people of marginalized minority groups, but instead be friendly to all, except when there are real reasons to suspect someone of a crime.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,204
Location: New York City (Queens)

13 Oct 2024, 5:41 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
bee33 wrote:
The police have a culture of contempt, harassment and abuse of the public.

Increasing their funding isn't going to change that one bit.

They probably don't need their funding to be increased, but I don't favor decreasing it either. What matters is what they do with their money.

Foot patrols are expensive, but, if done right (e.g., without an overabundance of "Stop and frisk," and without general harassment of marginalized minorities), they can be an excellent means of both (1) preventing crime and (2) building generally good relations between the police and people in the neighborhood.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


enz
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Sep 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,173

13 Oct 2024, 7:27 pm

Mona Pereth wrote:
enz wrote:
I've never been to America but I assume rich people who call the shots have a better experience with the cops which makes it hard to change things

Probably true.

On the other hand, rich people also have less need for the police to protect their communities, because they can afford private security guards.

Probably the people with the greatest need for police protection are the owners of small mom-and-pop stores (of which there are many, here in NYC) that can't afford security guards.

That's why we need cops on foot patrol in business districts -- if only they wouldn't harass people of marginalized minority groups, but instead be friendly to all, except when there are real reasons to suspect someone of a crime.


or maybe rich people are less likely to have a negative experience of being profiled



Mona Pereth
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 11 Sep 2018
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,204
Location: New York City (Queens)

13 Oct 2024, 9:15 pm

enz wrote:
or maybe rich people are less likely to have a negative experience of being profiled

Probably true, alas.

Back to your earlier post:

enz wrote:
I've never been to America but I assume rich people who call the shots have a better experience with the cops which makes it hard to change things

Actually the main group that "makes it hard to change things" seems to be the police unions. In general I tend to be pro-union, but police unions, alas, tend to be really regressive, resisting police accountability.


_________________
- Autistic in NYC - Resources and new ideas for the autistic adult community in the New York City metro area.
- Autistic peer-led groups (via text-based chat, currently) led or facilitated by members of the Autistic Peer Leadership Group.
- My Twitter / "X" (new as of 2021)


enz
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 26 Sep 2015
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,173

14 Oct 2024, 6:02 pm

also how do you fix the type of people that want to be a cop?