Palestine...to be or not

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It appears that Palestine will be getting the Axe , soon as a independant Nation,especially Gaza . After Trump take power . And Israel will be attempting to Co- opt the History of Palestine . As Israel has already leveled many archeological sites there. But amongst , these apparently not destroyed, In Palestine ,IS the BIRTHPLACE OF JESUS . making jesus a Palestinian.
And we have all these pro evangelical ,and otherwise Christian faith beliefs . Supporting Israels actions in the genocide of Palestinians . Am having a hard time understanding this mentality . If you can help give understanding in this matter . Please include your opinion here on this topic, if you wish ...

I think Israel has overstepped the line in such a way the last year that there is no way of getting back to the normal level of public support in Europe and probably also not in the US. In a longer perspective Israel will pay a high price for this. In the end the political leaders in Western democracies, the US inlcluded, will have to adjust to public opinion. The days of US backed up legal impunity will be over. I think the chance of a two state solution on fair terms is more likely today than it was before.

I'm for Israel. Jewish people are no longer safe.

If circumstances between the twp major players , here Israel and Palestine , had not degenerated to what it currently appears to be . I would be Pro- Israel slso . The entire area seems unsafe to me , Now.

One argument I often heard for supporting Israel is that Israel is America's only ally in the region. Proponents of that argument seem completely oblivious that by supporting Israel America is jeopardising our relationship with our other allies including our United Nations friends. BTW it's not only conservatives who support Israel. Biden approved weapon sales to Israel which is in violation of UN sanctions & America's own policies. It's no f#ckin wonder that Biden's vice president just lost to Trump. Liberal voters do NOT like voting for sellouts.

So, what about the Palestinians? Was the creation of Israel at their expense justified?

We have diplomatic people in a bunch of Middle Eastern Countries , and over the years we have supplied many of them with US military equipment and technology . Even at one time Iran too.

Well clearly I voted for Trump to teach the democrats, and now I am upset trump wants to bomb all my people. s/ of course I didn't really vote for trump but I feel that is what some anti democrat voters are feeling now. Obviously I voted for Harris.


Well turns out trying to teach the democrats a lesson didn't do anything good. Also for f***s sake it is Israel doing the genocide some people here act like the democrats here are the ones who are bombing palestine...like no you stupid dumbasses Israel is doing that.The democrats in tre U.S aren't behind the genocide Israel is, all these people willing to shoot themselves in the foot before looking at the real culprit. Trump already made clear he is fine with Israel killing every last palestinian and yet there were 'muslims for Trump, well idk I can only hope some of them get deported now). LIke my sister said time for people to reap what they have sown and me and her can just get our popcorn and peanuts and watch the circus unfold. Just so many people did this to themselves by voting for Trump. And they still want to blame the democrats wtf?

I'm blaming both Trump & Biden. Trump is openly encuraging the genocide. Whereas Biden is providing them weapons he knows will be used for that purpose. I think most Trump voters are at least OK with the genocide if not actively supporting that. However I think lots of Biden & Harris voters(including myself & my girlfriend) have major concerns about providing Israel with weapons & other aid but Biden & Harris were the candidates on the ballot that had the best chance of beating Trump & feeling unrepresented by the Democratic party leaders turned some potential voters off from voting for them.

But some people protest voted against Genocidal Kamala you see(sarcasm not what I personally believe), and that had nothing to do with Totally genocidal trump getting elected because now apparently according to some people voters and potential voters who decided to sit it out have no responsibility whatsoever for Trump getting elected. Like I thought MAGA's were bad but there are a s**t ton of dumb ass left wingers to, like there I said it. LIke yeah I am not just mad at MAGA's I am also mad at stupid non voting or pro palestine protester voting left wingers that voted for Jill Stien, or whatever like yeah back in 2016 I made that mistake to but, I thought we had all learned from 2016 and it had come out that the Green Party with Jill Stien is not a true green party. And is just there to take away votes from people like Kamala and in 2016 Hillary, turns out they don't care about the environment at all. but I thought that was found out a while ago so how could people still fall for it?

But idk did they not know what was at stake, like idk its going to be really hard to undo this right wing regime especially since they managed to gain the majority in the senate, whereas if we got Harris it probably would have been easier to sway the democratic party to go further left and idk its going to be a lot harder to push for more socialist ideas now. let alone convincing the government to cut Israel off like Trump fully supports Israel, at least the democrats where reducing weapons we send them and such and were going to put more sanctions but once Trump gets in he will do nothing to stop the genocide at all and in fact will even encourage it.

So, I hope those Palestine protest voters are happy, congrats by not voting or voting Trump to 'shake things up' turns out did nothing to actually help Palestinian civilians. I am sure they are very grateful we voted for the much more genocidal candidate to teach the dems a lesson. Those protest votes really helped the people of Palestine for sure.

people think they took the moral high ground for not voting Kamala beacause she did not magically end the alliance between the U.S and Israel that has existed for decades before she was even born. Like the Israel attacking and genociding Palestinians is literally nothing new Israel has been doing that for decades. So why is it just now people care and of all things blame the democrats in the U.S rather than Netanyahu the leader of Israel who is actually the one responsible for this current genocidal behavior? Like yes obviously Kamala harris is secretly also the leader of Israel and should have single handedly stopped the genocide to be worthy of getting a vote, but I guess trump gets a free pass cause he's Trump idk. Like did people litterally take stupid pills before voting in this last election.

I think the issue is that the democratic party has alienated their hardcore base in many ways partly due to an attempt at appearing more moderte to hopefully attract some independent & conservative voters. The strategy obviously backfired. The democratic party has left their base so they should not be surprised that their base has left them. Lots of people majorly hate having a two party system & being forced to chose between one person who is pure evil & another who could not teach a duck how to swim I know me, Cass, & my parents have voted for Hilary, Biden, & Harris but we really wished there was better choices that had a viable chance of winning. The voting system needs to be overhauled so every vote equally counts instead of only focusing on winning swing staes in addition to having ranked choice voting & banning corporate donations.

So?  In your studies of the Bible, did you neglect to note that GOD HIMSELF gave the region over to the Israelites (a.k.a., "The Jews") in perpetuity?

In Genesis 12:7, God promises Abram, who had just arrived in Canaan, “To your offspring I will give this land.” Later, in Genesis 15:18, God expands on that unconditional promise: “To your descendants I have given this land, From the river of Egypt as far as the great river, the river Euphrates” (NASB).  Then, in Genesis 17:8, God reiterates the promise to Abraham, adding that the land gift is irrevocable: “The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you.”  God later repeats the promise to Abraham’s son Isaac (Genesis 26:3–4) and Isaac’s son Jacob (Genesis 28:13), whose name God later changed to Israel.

The promise of land belonging to the children of Israel is permanent.  Even when Israel was expelled from their land, which has happened twice in history, God promised they would return: “Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the LORD your God will gather you and bring you back. He will bring you to the land that belonged to your ancestors, and you will take possession of it” (Deuteronomy 30:4–5).  This promise is part of what is today sometimes called the Palestinian Covenant or the Land Covenant (Deuteronomy 29:1—30:10).

On today’s map, the land God has stated belongs to Israel includes everything modern-day Israel possesses, plus all of the territory occupied by the Palestinians (the West Bank and Gaza), plus some of Egypt and Syria, plus all of Jordan, plus some of Saudi Arabia and Iraq. Thus, Israel currently possesses only a fraction of the land God has promised; the rest of their inheritance likely awaits the return of the Messiah, Jesus Christ.  God has given His word that the nation of Israel will never cease as long as the sun still shines by day and the moon and stars still shine by night (Jeremiah 31:35–37).

 Link to Factual Source  (also, try read a Bible.)

Those who occupy the land promised by God Himself to Israel are stealing from the Nation of Israel and defying God,  Those who want to eliminate the Nation of Israel are really defying God, and those who curse or attack the Nation of Israel are just asking for a blue bolt from the heavenly realms.

Also, remember that it was YOU who first mentioned God in this thread, so be aware that some of us have actually read the Bible (and some have even attended Seminary training).

^ So your god, once again, is the cause or justification for the slaughter of innocents? There seems to be a pattern here.
Asking for a friend...

Kudos Fnord, mainly on the seminary training . best male friend ever had went through the seminary aswell, Lost him 5 yrs ago to diabetes . Notwithstanding Thank you for the "historical" justification .
As you might figure , My issues do not base themselves on a religion . But you describe what might be a mindset of another group of peoples regarding religious beliefs . "and what IN reality " versus another groups mindset .
But what have in real time is by all other descriptions, could easily be thought of as a Genocide .
It is many years beyond the Bibles first written words now . It is the 21 st century . And using religious beliefs to
justify a religious War ...is rather Passe' .....These are modern times .
For you to extrapolate that " my using the name of Jesus" constitutes an invocation of Gawds name . Doesnt fly in all
religions . If I recall the Judaic faith does not support the idea of Jesus as Gawd but rather as a additional prophet
of the Messiah .? . And obviously those around Israel do not support the idea about Jesus being Gawd .
And the topic here is meant to ask, what will become of the original State of Palestine in Century 21 of the currently known ,Earths history . To make your own history ( Israel) by Slaughtering another people ,in Modern times , is usually met with much reprocussions . And similiar to other Countries during WW2 doing the same .But based on the religious
concepts, ? Still hard for me to justify the impact that Israel is creating in that region . And am hoping Palestine still
survives as a independant Country ...Did note however in those things you referenced about the So Called Lands of Israel . Included Jordan . Note that Israel would not attack that Country. For it is ,one of the USA s. stronger Allies in the region . If your history , is based on old outdated religious text books, Theoretically ,the Israelis are still subjects of the Egyptian Pharoahs .
( apologies to anyone whom this thread might offend, no intention to disparage the Bible or anyones beliefs around that Book ! )

Make-believe is a poor basis for making decisions that impact the real world.

You're no different from the right-wing theocrats you claim to abhor.