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ASPartOfMe
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10 Nov 2024, 6:03 am

Most talking heads of all political persuasions have bought into the landslide interpretation pushed by MAGA's, hook line, and sinker

As of this writing, Trump is leading the popular vote 50.5 to 47.8 percent and 312 to 226. If you are young and all you have known is polarization it can seem this way. And there is the reality that the election was not as close as the numbers suggest because Harris underperformed Biden amount almost all demographics and almost all locations.

OTHD the popular vote numbers will narrow as the blue state mail-in and drop-box ballots from California, Oregon and Washington are counted.

Let's look at some actual landslides and other not close elections us older people lived through
1964 Lyndon Johnson 61.1 % Barry Goldwater 38.5% Electoral College 486 to 52

1972 Richard Nixon 60.7 % George McGovern 37.5 percent. Electoral College 520 to 17. McGovern lost his home state

1974 Midterms Popular vote Dems +16. Democrats 60 to 38 lead in the Senate Gain 49 seats in the House for a 291 to 149 advantage

1980 Ronald Reagan 50.7% Jimmy Carter 41% Electoral College 489 to 49 Republicans take control of the Senate

1984 Ronald Reagan 58.8% Walter Mondale 40.6 percent Electoral College 525 to 13

1996 Bill Clinton 49.2 Bob Dole 40.7 Electoral College 379 to 159

What has surprised me in the aftermath of this election? No protests and riots and an apparent feeling of. hopelessness(Democrats hopelessly incompetent and Neoliberal, Voters hopelessly bigoted, sheepie and selfish etc)

The numbers say that reverting this result in future years is very doable The above demonstrated parties that were thumped to a much greater degree than the Dems this year reverted those results in short order. Yes, the authoritarian roadblocks that will be put up will make this harder but still doable.

The Democrats and all anti-Trumpers do have some decisions to make but they they need to be based on what actually happened.


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10 Nov 2024, 10:55 am

"As of this writing, Trump is leading the popular vote 50.5 to 47.8 percent and 312 to 226. If you are young and all you have known is polarization it can seem this way. And there is the reality that the election was not as close as the numbers suggest because Harris underperformed Biden amount almost all demographics and almost all locations.

OTHD the popular vote numbers will narrow as the blue state mail-in and drop-box ballots from California, Oregon and Washington are counted.

Let's look at some actual landslides and other not close elections us older people lived through
1964 Lyndon Johnson 61.1 % Barry Goldwater 38.5% Electoral College 486 to 52

1972 Richard Nixon 60.7 % George McGovern 37.5 percent. Electoral College 520 to 17. McGovern lost his home state

1974 Midterms Popular vote Dems +16. Democrats 60 to 38 lead in the Senate Gain 49 seats in the House for a 291 to 149 advantage

1980 Ronald Reagan 50.7% Jimmy Carter 41% Electoral College 489 to 49 Republicans take control of the Senate

1984 Ronald Reagan 58.8% Walter Mondale 40.6 percent Electoral College 525 to 13

1996 Bill Clinton 49.2 Bob Dole 40.7 Electoral College 379 to 159"



Excellent Analysis ASPartOfMe, When i Saw The OP Title of "The Election Was No Landslide Not Close"
i Felt oh Dear Lord, Finally An Analysis From the Press With Enough Wisdom to Make This Clear Yet

Amazingly, i Have Yet to come across One, Except For What You Clearly And Concisely Bring Here...

It's Almost as
if the 'Losers'
At the Elite Top
Are So Butt Hurt
They Wanna Express
Masochism For Their Fall...

True, Top Political Analysts From even
CNN, Predicted Ahead that Either Side Could
Sway to Win All 7 Swing States. And This is Exactly What

Happened Within the Margin of 3 Points or So, by the End of the
Popular General Population Count; NO, even so far, 50.5 Percent

of the Voters Is NO Landslide By Any Statistical Count; only a Significant Win

Of A
Half of
A Percent
of All Voting Tallied;

And Yes With Harris Only
2.7 Percentage Points Behind Trump

With Plenty More Blue State Ballots to Be Counted
As i've Continued to See the Lead Narrow as the Counts Grow...

Yes, It's a Real Problem When the Losers Give a Mandate That IS NOT
Materializing in the Reality of the Numbers; As of Now We Don't even Have a Clear
Winner of the House and at Most it Will Be Very Close Just Like Last Go Around in 2020...

Once Again to Reiterate, With Basic Common Sense, Half of the Country DID NOT Vote for Trump;
And Likely Less than Half, When the Popular Vote is All Counted From the Blue States Still Outstanding...

Working With the Military for a Quarter of a Century and Seeing the ACTUAL LOYALTY TO THE CONSTITUTION OF
THOSE WHO SWORE THAT OATH WHEN COMING INTO SERVICE; SO FAR, i Have Faith that They will NOT ALLOW Trump
to Rape the Constitution By Using the Military to Inflict Harm on His Political Enemies; For If The Military Fails to Fulfill

Their Oath
to the
Constitution

ALL HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE;

And the Putin's and The Such Will Applaud Their Puppet at Hand...

And Perhaps All the Children in Graves Under Rubbles of Buildings
Will Be More Remembered

When It's
On Our
Soils This
Go Around;

Words Matter;

COMPETENCE

IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIFE OR DEATH.



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ASPartOfMe
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10 Nov 2024, 12:27 pm

I am glad you liked the analysis. I see you were having the same reaction to all the landslide and mandate talk that I was having. If you have not read it yet here is my analysis of how the Democrats blew it.


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10 Nov 2024, 9:13 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
I am glad you liked the analysis. I see you were having the same reaction to all the landslide and mandate talk that I was having. If you have not read it yet here is my analysis of how the Democrats blew it.


I Listened to Fareed Zakaria, who is Usually Less Biased than Most Analysts and He Basically
Agreed with Your Assessment With Major Factors Of the Global Wide Pandemic, And Associated
Supply Issues With Inflation; Immigration Problems at the Border; And Various Other Factors Identified
in Your Thread of What Went Wrong With the Democrat's Effort; Of course, the Democrats Felt Sure Trump

Could Beat No One With His Legal Issues; Particularly, Inciting A Try of An Overthrow Of a Fair Representative
Democracy Election Result; Otherwise, It's Not Likely They Would Have Allowed Biden to Skate By Without any
Real Competition in the Primary; And Held Him More to His Promise of Being a Transition President to a Younger Generation

Of New Candidates With Fresh Ideas; Harris, attempted to Please Everyone, Including Her Loyalty to President Biden.

Harris, Definitely Exceeded Expectations of Most Everyone From the Start of Her Effort. If the Biden Administration
Didn't Remedy the Issues With Unemployment, Jobs, Gross Domestic Product Output, The Inflation Rate, Stock
Market Booming, Loan Rates Finally Decreasing; And Particularly, A Major Issue of Folks Living Pay-Check to
Pay-Check Worrying About the Price of Gas, Going Under 3 Dollars, We might have Seen the Kind of Landslides
That Other Western Developed Countries Experienced With More Authoritarian Leaders Replacing Incumbents.

The New York Times, Currently Forecasts The Ending Popular Vote Count to be around 1.5 Percent to the Favor
of Trump When All Votes Are Counted. Zakaria, Agreed that the Election Was Close Enough For the Democrats
to have Potentially Won It, If They Corrected The Assessed Mistakes With Clearer Vision Looking Backwards.

When the Pandemic Started, I Read Where that Kind of Global Phenomenon Leading to Scarcity Among the
Masses, Is Usually Accompanied By More Authoritarian Leaders Coming into Power; Or Whoever Can Convince

the 'Common Denominator' Of the Masses They Can Fix the Problem, Whether they Can or Not.

Neither Trump or Harris Were Likely to Resolve the Biggest Consumer Issue of Prices of Groceries
and the Such as That; However, As the Economic Experts Predict, Trump Can Surely Make Things Worse

With His Tariffs and Mass Deportation of Immigrants, If Folks Allow Him to Do That And Potentially Lose

Their House
Positions
In Two Years From Now;

Behind Closed Doors, In Both
The House and The Senate, A Substantial
Number of the Senators and Representatives
Have Expressed Disgust about the Product of Trump;

Lots of Cognitive Dissonance I'm Sure There is; And Not
Likely that everyone is Gonna Go With All That He Suggests On His
Team As They Will Surely Do Whatever It Takes for Them to Stay In Power too...

Increased
Inflation will
Surely Be a Disaster
For That as forecast
By Economic Experts,

If Trump Gets to Do What He Wants to Do...

Of Course That's Nothing New With Folks who Lack Competence;

No Doubt He Understands How to Pull the Heart Strings of Fear, Anger,

and Hate; Yet that's Not Enough to Run A Country, Successfully, Once One gets to Actually do The Job.

They'll Probably get the 15 Percent Corporate Tax Rate and continue the Other Tax Cuts that the General
Population Currently Enjoys; and of Course they Will Hold That Part Hostage to get the 15 Percent Corporate
Tax Rate to Increase the Country's Deficit For Another Corporate Welfare Tax Hand-Out; As Far As No Tax
On Tips, No Tax on Social Security, Highly Unlikely the House or Senate Will move on any more Tax Cuts

For the Working Class Folks; What they Will Likely Do is Cut Money For The Environment and the Subsidies
Associated With the Affordable Care Act also Coming to Expire at the End of 2025; That's Gonna Be a Lot
of Pain for a Substantial Number of Voters; Most People Don't Have the Focus, Attention Span to Pay Attention

to Many Political
Details; Like the Folks
Who had to Search Google
to See if Biden Had dropped
Out of the Race By the Date of the Election...

Politics, is Not close to Everyone's Interest;

Until The S Really Hits the Fan; Potentially Still to come

And Bring Out the Similar Turn-Out Biden Enjoyed With His 81 MiLLioN Votes in 2020...

Cycles come and go; We've Surely Seen the S Hit the Fan before; More to Come Indeed...

Yet the COG of the Government Machine Moves Slow and Often finds Itself Still Clogged UP...

Lot Of 'Bozos' Left; Particularly, in the Republican House; Competence Hasn't Shown to Be Their Strong Point,

So
Far
At Least..:)


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10 Nov 2024, 9:38 pm

The mail-in ballots on the West Coast mean nothing. Even if they put Harris over the top, the Electoral College calls the shots.

Welcome (back) to the 1950s. Enjoy watching everything you've taken for granted become illegal.


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ASPartOfMe
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11 Nov 2024, 6:24 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
The mail-in ballots on the West Coast mean nothing. Even if they put Harris over the top, the Electoral College calls the shots.

Welcome (back) to the 1950s. Enjoy watching everything you've taken for granted become illegal.


True mail-in ballots won't affect the results. That is not the point of this thread. If the false belief that Trump won by a landslide and has this massive mandate continues to take hold it is going to be easier for the Republicans to pass authoritarian laws and for Trump to implement authoritarian policies.

It is depressing enough that Trump won again, a false belief that he won by a landslide can be utterly dispiriting.


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11 Nov 2024, 7:01 am

From my understanding, about 250 000 votes across Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania made the difference in the election result.


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27 Nov 2024, 10:47 am

The 2024 presidential election was close, not a landslide

Quote:
Was the 2024 presidential election close?

It certainly didn't feel that way on election night and in the days immediately after. It became clear that President-elect Donald Trump was on pace to win relatively early in the evening. Interactive maps of election results showed the entire country shifting right. By Thursday, Trump had won 51 percent of the votes that had been counted thus far, more than 3 percentage points ahead of Vice President Kamala Harris. Headlines declared that Trump's victory was "resounding" and a "rout." His allies proclaimed it was a "decisive win" and claimed a mandate.

But ballots were still being counted. As we've gotten more data and had the time to put the 2024 election in perspective, the truth has become clear: Yes, the 2024 presidential election was close. With more ballots counted, Trump's national popular vote lead is down to 1.6 points, and Harris could have won if she had done just a couple of points better in just a few states. Any argument that the 2024 election was a "landslide" is misleading. It relies on a combination of recency bias and using the wrong measuring sticks.

The right way to measure an election's closeness
Let's go through those measuring sticks one at a time. The most obvious one pointing to a Trump landslide is the margin in the Electoral College. After months of punditry about how the 2024 election could be one of the closest elections of all time, Trump ended up winning all seven major swing states, which came as a surprise to many Americans (although it shouldn't have been, since we and many other analysts cautioned that a sweep was a possible, even likely, outcome). Assuming there are no faithless electors, that will give Trump a healthy 312-226 electoral-vote margin when the Electoral College convenes on Dec. 17.

But because of its winner-take-all nature, the Electoral College isn't a good measure of closeness. Imagine an election where one candidate wins every state and district 50.1 percent to 49.9 percent. That candidate would romp to a 538-0 victory in the Electoral College, but that election was obviously still very close. The same principle was at play in the 2024 election: Trump won six of the seven major swing states (Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin) by 3.2 points or less. And he won Wisconsin by just 0.9 points, Michigan by just 1.4 points and Pennsylvania by just 1.7 points.

That's important because if Harris had won those three states (plus all the states and districts she actually did win), she would have gotten exactly 270 Electoral College votes. From this way of thinking about the election, you can see that Pennsylvania was the decisive state in the 2024 campaign — what we at 538 call the "tipping-point state."

In other words, if Harris had done just 1.8 points better across the board — or even just in those three states (although that's not usually how elections work) — she would be the president-elect right now.

Trump's win in historical context
That's a pretty close election by any standard — but we can see just how close it is by putting that number into historical context. There have been 20 presidential elections since the end of World War II, and in only six of them was the tipping-point state decided by a smaller margin than Pennsylvania was decided by this year.

Granted, two of those elections were 2016 and 2020: In both of those years, the tipping-point state was Wisconsin and was decided by less than 1 point. In that sense, it's understandable that 2024 felt like a big win for Trump: It was relatively big for him. But it certainly wasn't big if you take the historical long view, or even the medium view: In the two presidential elections before Trump came on the scene, former President Barack Obama won Colorado (the tipping-point state in both 2008 and 2012) by much bigger margins than Trump won Pennsylvania by this year.

And in fact, the same is true if you look at the Electoral College margin, Trump's main claim to landslide status. His likely 86-electoral-vote margin over Harris is larger than the 77 electoral votes he won by in 2016 or the 74 electoral votes that President Joe Biden won by in 2020. But it's smaller than the 126 electoral votes that Obama won by in 2012 and the 192 electoral votes that Obama won by in 2008. And once again, it is only the 14th-biggest Electoral College victory since the end of World War II.

Another way to assess the closeness of an election is, of course, the national popular vote. While the popular vote doesn't affect who actually wins the election, it can be relevant in discussions of how big of a mandate the winner has to govern. By this measure as well, 2024 was a historically close election. Since the end of World War II, only three elections had popular-vote margins smaller than Trump's current 1.6-point lead: 1960, 1968 and 2000.

Trump has a couple of rebuttals to this. The first is that he is only the second Republican presidential candidate to win the popular vote since 1988 (the other was then-President George W. Bush in 2004). In an era in which the American electorate is typically slightly Democratic-leaning, that is an impressive accomplishment — but it doesn't make the 2024 election a "landslide" in absolute terms.

The second is that his 1.6-point popular-vote win represents a 6.1-point shift toward Republicans from the 2020 election. That's certainly a notable shift in only four years; the country hasn't changed its mind so quickly since racing 9.7 points to the left between Bush's 2004 win and Obama's 2008 win. But most of that movement is because Biden set a relatively high bar for Democrats by winning the 2020 popular vote by 4.5 points; if Biden had won by just, say, 1 point instead, the shift toward Trump wouldn't stand out.

High expectations for Democrats in the popular vote, along with the widely circulated maps showing big swings toward Trump in virtually every county in the country, may have played a big role in setting those early narratives that Trump had notched an overwhelming win. Another was probably the media's repeated warnings before the election that it might take days to project a winner. While that very easily could have come to pass, we may have overemphasized the point. It was also always possible that a winner would be projected on election night, which is of course what happened.

After it took until the Saturday after Election Day for media outlets to project that Biden had won the 2020 election, the relatively early projection in 2024 (ABC News projected him as the winner at 5:31 a.m. Eastern on Wednesday) probably made Trump's win seem more decisive. But once again, that's recency bias at play. The 2024 election actually took longer to project than all but three presidential elections since 1976. Apart from the interminable 2000 (when the race came down to a recount in Florida that didn't end until Dec. 12) and 2020 elections, only 2004 kept us in more suspense.

All in all, the idea that Trump won an overwhelming victory in 2024 is less grounded in the data and more based on a sense of surprise relative to (perhaps miscalibrated) expectations.

Why perceptions of the 2024 election matter
The debate over the closeness of the 2024 election may seem academic — Trump won; who cares if it was a landslide or not? — but it could have a very real impact on the ambitiousness of Trump's second term. Boasting about the scope of his win, Trump claimed in his victory speech that "America has given us an unprecedented and powerful mandate" to govern — a narrative that caught on in the media and with many voters, too. In a mid-November poll from HarrisX/Harvard University, 71 percent of registered voters said that Trump had a mandate to govern, including 50 percent who said he had a "strong mandate."

Trump is just the latest in a long line of presidents-elect trying to convert electoral success into political capital to pass their agendas. There's just one problem: Political scientists who have studied the idea of presidential mandates generally agree that they're made up. It's basically impossible to ascertain what voters had in mind when they went to the ballot box and whether a candidate's win was an explicit endorsement for a specific policy or approach to governing.

And according to research by 538 contributor Julia Azari, a professor at Marquette University, there is no relationship between how often a president-elect claims a mandate and how big their victory was. In fact, Azari even found that presidents are more likely to claim mandates when they are in a politically weak position, as a sort of act of desperation to claim that their policies have public support.

But research has also found that, much like Tinker Bell, mandates can exist if enough people believe that they do. According to political scientists Lawrence Grossback, David Peterson and James Stimson, when there is a media consensus that an election carries a mandate, Congress responds by passing major legislation. Azari and Peterson have further found that politicians themselves, like Trump, can push Congress to action as well, simply by insisting that they have a mandate. And per Azari, when a president-elect insists that he has a mandate, it is often accompanied by major expansions of presidential power.

In other words, regardless of how close the 2024 election was in reality, Trump's claims to a mandate suggest that Republicans are planning to govern like they won in a landslide.


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27 Nov 2024, 11:21 am

Quote:
What has surprised me in the aftermath of this election? No protests and riots and an apparent feeling of. hopelessness(Democrats hopelessly incompetent and Neoliberal, Voters hopelessly bigoted, sheepie and selfish etc)


This surprised me too. But i know we would rather sit back and watch leopards eatvfaces and go "we told you so."

It's already been happening already. Look up voters regret or voters remorse and check out leopardsatemyface subreddit. This is more entertaining and relaxing to see.


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30 Nov 2024, 5:43 pm

Right, it wasn't much of a landslide. It's just that because of the system, one lot will get most of the power for a while. It's usually the way, huge swathes of people get disenfranchised. In the UK, Boris called the Brexit result "the people's will." Truth is, it was more of a momentary shift of opinion by a small number of voters. Oh well. I wonder if it would be better if we could vote on individual issues instead of choosing between 2 sets of clowns to do what they like?



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30 Nov 2024, 8:40 pm

I think the rightward shift in deep blue districts is the real story here, people who have experienced Democrat rule up close and personal swinging like 20 points away from it. A less polarizing GOP nominee might have gotten a real landslide, especially considering Trump was running against the entire media, and entertainment industries in addition to the Democrats.


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30 Nov 2024, 9:11 pm

Dox47 wrote:
especially considering Trump was running against the entire media, and entertainment industries in addition to the Democrats.

That made sense until this bit.
All that demonizing of the left in paid advertising doesn't count as media? Nor does Sky News I suppose. I don't get to see much other American media, because here the newspapers and TV are owned by right wing biased mega rich like the Murdochs and the Packers. Is it different there?



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30 Nov 2024, 9:13 pm

Carbonhalo wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
especially considering Trump was running against the entire media, and entertainment industries in addition to the Democrats.

That made sense until this bit.
All that demonizing of the left in paid advertising doesn't count as media? Nor does Sky News I suppose. I don't get to see much other American media, because here the newspapers and TV are owned by right wing biased mega rich like the Murdochs and the Packers. Is it different there?


Well, in America it's called Fox instead of Sky, but it's the same swill.


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30 Nov 2024, 9:39 pm

It seems like a landslide because the GOP candidate actually won the popular vote for a change. Last time that happened, I was still learning long division.
This isn't a reflection of a rightward shift in the American public, rather it is a reflection of how Harris was an aggressively unlikable candidate who made many Democrat voters stay home.


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30 Nov 2024, 9:54 pm

Carbonhalo wrote:
That made sense until this bit.
All that demonizing of the left in paid advertising doesn't count as media? Nor does Sky News I suppose. I don't get to see much other American media, because here the newspapers and TV are owned by right wing biased mega rich like the Murdochs and the Packers. Is it different there?


In America, all media that isn't explicitly marked as right wing is left leaning at best, a de facto arm of the Democrat party at worst (look up the donation numbers some time, or the newspaper endorsements). The left leaning stuff is peddled as just "the news" without any indication of the slant, and liberals will constantly gaslight you about this, even when it's something as obvious as Joe Biden's obvious mental and physical decline, which we were told was all a "cheap fake" right up until the June debate.


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30 Nov 2024, 9:57 pm

roronoa79 wrote:
This isn't a reflection of a rightward shift in the American public, rather it is a reflection of how Harris was an aggressively unlikable candidate who made many Democrat voters stay home.


Yes and no, have you looked at the numbers showing the county level swings, especially in the major cities? Trump's performance with non white voters was also startling in light of the decade plus media narrative about what a racist he is (I think he's average for his age, he just doesn't really bother to hide it).


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