The Welch's/Wine Controversy in the Church of Christ

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Texasmoneyman300
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13 Jan 2025, 11:52 am

Hi yall,
As some of you know I am a member of the church of Christ. We typically use non-alcoholic grape juice for our communion. I have always wondered why we do that with Welch's when it was real alcoholic wine during Bible times. Well a while back my old reverend said that the Church of Christ switched to Grape juice from real red wine due to Prohibition. I know some Catholic Churches back then made use of a loophole involving sacramental wine. For some reason I never heard of Churches of Christ using that loophole.

We in the Church of Christ take communion every week. I am a bit surprised that my church changed or stopped or altered a religious practice because it was suddenly made illegal at one point. Grape Juice was chosen partially because there was no need for any special permits and/or licenses.....Ironically, using real wine for communion is and was thought to be too worldly for the Church of Christ.....Its highly ironic to me because the early church drank real wine during communion. Apparently, grape juice for communion may have started in the church of Christ in the 1800's but became widespread during Prohibition and became standard after World War Two.



TwilightPrincess
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13 Jan 2025, 12:01 pm

I was thinking that one good thing about having grape juice instead of wine is that it might not be so triggering for some recovering alcoholics who’d find it triggering, not that I know much about that or anything. Overall, I find the concept of communion very strange.



Texasmoneyman300
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13 Jan 2025, 12:09 pm

TwilightPrincess wrote:
I was thinking that one good thing about having grape juice instead of wine is that it might not be so triggering for some recovering alcoholics who’d find it triggering, not that I know much about that or anything. Overall, I find the concept of communion very strange.


Ya I guess its good that the recovering alcoholics have a better time with the Welch's.



lostonearth35
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19 Jan 2025, 3:01 am

Around the time the Bible was written most people were drunk on alcohol most of the time because drinking ordinary water could kill you.

It's pretty freaky knowing that if humans didn't learn how to treat water to make it drinkable we would have all gotten cholera or some other deadly water-born illness a very long time ago. :skull:



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19 Jan 2025, 6:38 am

lostonearth35 wrote:
Around the time the Bible was written most people were drunk on alcohol most of the time because drinking ordinary water could kill you.


It'd be a bit of an overstatement to say they were drunk, mostly because their typical drinks were too weak to get one drunk. Watered down wine or very weak beer were typical, but a drink with ~2% alcohol isn't getting a regular drinker drunk.


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19 Jan 2025, 6:49 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Hi yall,
As some of you know I am a member of the church of Christ. We typically use non-alcoholic grape juice for our communion. I have always wondered why we do that with Welch's when it was real alcoholic wine during Bible times. Well a while back my old reverend said that the Church of Christ switched to Grape juice from real red wine due to Prohibition. I know some Catholic Churches back then made use of a loophole involving sacramental wine. For some reason I never heard of Churches of Christ using that loophole.

We in the Church of Christ take communion every week. I am a bit surprised that my church changed or stopped or altered a religious practice because it was suddenly made illegal at one point. Grape Juice was chosen partially because there was no need for any special permits and/or licenses.....Ironically, using real wine for communion is and was thought to be too worldly for the Church of Christ.....Its highly ironic to me because the early church drank real wine during communion. Apparently, grape juice for communion may have started in the church of Christ in the 1800's but became widespread during Prohibition and became standard after World War Two.


I admit I prefer when the communion has actual wine.


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19 Jan 2025, 6:52 am

funeralxempire wrote:
lostonearth35 wrote:
Around the time the Bible was written most people were drunk on alcohol most of the time because drinking ordinary water could kill you.


It'd be a bit of an overstatement to say they were drunk, mostly because their typical drinks were too weak to get one drunk. Watered down wine or very weak beer were typical, but a drink with ~2% alcohol isn't getting a regular drinker drunk.


People used to drink beer over water, cause at least the beer was sanatized...it was weaker beer than some of what wse have now, but yeah beer used to be a way to get water that wasnt contaminated. So yeah it was not always enough to get drunk


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19 Jan 2025, 7:51 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Hi yall,
As some of you know I am a member of the church of Christ. We typically use non-alcoholic grape juice for our communion. I have always wondered why we do that with Welch's when it was real alcoholic wine during Bible times. Well a while back my old reverend said that the Church of Christ switched to Grape juice from real red wine due to Prohibition. I know some Catholic Churches back then made use of a loophole involving sacramental wine. For some reason I never heard of Churches of Christ using that loophole.

We in the Church of Christ take communion every week. I am a bit surprised that my church changed or stopped or altered a religious practice because it was suddenly made illegal at one point. Grape Juice was chosen partially because there was no need for any special permits and/or licenses.....Ironically, using real wine for communion is and was thought to be too worldly for the Church of Christ.....Its highly ironic to me because the early church drank real wine during communion. Apparently, grape juice for communion may have started in the church of Christ in the 1800's but became widespread during Prohibition and became standard after World War Two.


I admit I prefer when the communion has actual wine.


Either is ok, though because of the meds I'm on, I can't have alcohol.


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Texasmoneyman300
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28 Jan 2025, 7:45 am

lostonearth35 wrote:
Around the time the Bible was written most people were drunk on alcohol most of the time because drinking ordinary water could kill you.

It's pretty freaky knowing that if humans didn't learn how to treat water to make it drinkable we would have all gotten cholera or some other deadly water-born illness a very long time ago. :skull:

Ya cholera used to kill lots of people and still does in some parts of the world sadly.



Texasmoneyman300
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28 Jan 2025, 7:45 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Hi yall,
As some of you know I am a member of the church of Christ. We typically use non-alcoholic grape juice for our communion. I have always wondered why we do that with Welch's when it was real alcoholic wine during Bible times. Well a while back my old reverend said that the Church of Christ switched to Grape juice from real red wine due to Prohibition. I know some Catholic Churches back then made use of a loophole involving sacramental wine. For some reason I never heard of Churches of Christ using that loophole.

We in the Church of Christ take communion every week. I am a bit surprised that my church changed or stopped or altered a religious practice because it was suddenly made illegal at one point. Grape Juice was chosen partially because there was no need for any special permits and/or licenses.....Ironically, using real wine for communion is and was thought to be too worldly for the Church of Christ.....Its highly ironic to me because the early church drank real wine during communion. Apparently, grape juice for communion may have started in the church of Christ in the 1800's but became widespread during Prohibition and became standard after World War Two.


I admit I prefer when the communion has actual wine.

Me too.Same here.



Texasmoneyman300
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28 Jan 2025, 7:46 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
lostonearth35 wrote:
Around the time the Bible was written most people were drunk on alcohol most of the time because drinking ordinary water could kill you.


It'd be a bit of an overstatement to say they were drunk, mostly because their typical drinks were too weak to get one drunk. Watered down wine or very weak beer were typical, but a drink with ~2% alcohol isn't getting a regular drinker drunk.


People used to drink beer over water, cause at least the beer was sanatized...it was weaker beer than some of what wse have now, but yeah beer used to be a way to get water that wasnt contaminated. So yeah it was not always enough to get drunk

I wonder how strong beer was compared to the typical stuff now.



Last edited by Texasmoneyman300 on 28 Jan 2025, 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Texasmoneyman300
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28 Jan 2025, 7:49 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Hi yall,
As some of you know I am a member of the church of Christ. We typically use non-alcoholic grape juice for our communion. I have always wondered why we do that with Welch's when it was real alcoholic wine during Bible times. Well a while back my old reverend said that the Church of Christ switched to Grape juice from real red wine due to Prohibition. I know some Catholic Churches back then made use of a loophole involving sacramental wine. For some reason I never heard of Churches of Christ using that loophole.

We in the Church of Christ take communion every week. I am a bit surprised that my church changed or stopped or altered a religious practice because it was suddenly made illegal at one point. Grape Juice was chosen partially because there was no need for any special permits and/or licenses.....Ironically, using real wine for communion is and was thought to be too worldly for the Church of Christ.....Its highly ironic to me because the early church drank real wine during communion. Apparently, grape juice for communion may have started in the church of Christ in the 1800's but became widespread during Prohibition and became standard after World War Two.


I admit I prefer when the communion has actual wine.


Either is ok, though because of the meds I'm on, I can't have alcohol.

Most in the Church of Christ think its sin to use real wine for communion most likely.However a few think welches is sinful and use real wine.My church plant will use real wine and have similar views on alcohol as the Roman Catholic church.



funeralxempire
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28 Jan 2025, 8:09 am

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Most in the Church of Christ think its sin to use real wine for communion most likely.However a few think welches is sinful and use real wine.My church plant will use real wine and have similar views on alcohol as the Roman Catholic church.


With how prone to schism Protestants are I can see your plant ending up as a full-fledged denomination.

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
I wonder how strong beer was compared to the typical stuff now.


There would have been quite a range depending on what the beer was intended for. The stuff you'd drink for special occasions might be potent, but the stuff you'd drink while working in the fields (or whatever) would have been much weaker.


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Texasmoneyman300
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29 Jan 2025, 10:29 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
Most in the Church of Christ think its sin to use real wine for communion most likely.However a few think welches is sinful and use real wine.My church plant will use real wine and have similar views on alcohol as the Roman Catholic church.


With how prone to schism Protestants are I can see your plant ending up as a full-fledged denomination.

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
I wonder how strong beer was compared to the typical stuff now.


There would have been quite a range depending on what the beer was intended for. The stuff you'd drink for special occasions might be potent, but the stuff you'd drink while working in the fields (or whatever) would have been much weaker.

Oh okay.I wonder how strong it was compared to stuff like Budweiser and Coors Light.....Thanks.The Church of Christ is very prone to splits for very minor reasons so I can see your point.Maybe I will do a thread on how the Church of Christ is so prone to schism.I am sure the alcohol views of the church plant will be very controversial.



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30 Jan 2025, 5:31 pm

Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
I wonder how strong it was compared to stuff like Budweiser and Coors Light...


Like half as strong, but probably more flavour. 2% or so.


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Texasmoneyman300
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41 minutes ago

funeralxempire wrote:
Texasmoneyman300 wrote:
I wonder how strong it was compared to stuff like Budweiser and Coors Light...


Like half as strong, but probably more flavour. 2% or so.

Oh okay.Thanks.