Page 1 of 4 [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Reodor_Felgen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,300

09 Dec 2007, 9:30 am

A lot of people wear Che Guevara t-shirts. Che Guevara is seen as an icon as well as a fighter for freedom by people who don't know who he was or what he did.

I strongly recomend people to watch this video clip:

[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=_xHirDOoRu8[/youtube]

Image


_________________
WP doesn't have a working first amendment.

Fuck. This will override the swear word filter.


Anubis
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Sep 2006
Age: 136
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,911
Location: Mount Herculaneum/England

09 Dec 2007, 9:40 am

He is a symbol, an icon of the fight of communism against capitalism, and the liberation of the people of South America especially.

A general revolutionary symbol.

War and military action is sometimes the quickest and only viable way to bring about revolution and change. I wouldn't call war primitive, not with all the technology that we have now.


_________________
Lalalalai.... I'll cut you up!


Reodor_Felgen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,300

09 Dec 2007, 10:17 am

Anubis wrote:
He is a symbol, an icon of the fight of communism against capitalism, and the liberation of the people of South America especially.

A general revolutionary symbol.

War and military action is sometimes the quickest and only viable way to bring about revolution and change. I wouldn't call war primitive, not with all the technology that we have now.


With Fidel Castro as a leader, the people in Cuba aren't liberated. There's no such thing as a democracy in Cuba, only a sick dictator named Fidel Castro.

Most of the people killed by Che Guevara were innocent, you can perform a revolution without killing innocent people.


_________________
WP doesn't have a working first amendment.

Fuck. This will override the swear word filter.


richardbenson
Xfractor Card #351
Xfractor Card #351

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,553
Location: Leave only a footprint behind

09 Dec 2007, 1:02 pm

i know what you mean. i see everyone wearing his t-shirts here like hes some great guy, he wasnt



Kilroy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,549
Location: Beyond the Void

09 Dec 2007, 1:25 pm

if these asa holes knew anything about marxism or communism they would know exactly who he was.
Methinks its a shock value though no one knows who he is :roll:
idiots
I have a Che shirt and I KNOW what I wear if for



Reodor_Felgen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,300

09 Dec 2007, 1:35 pm

Kilroy wrote:
if these asa holes knew anything about marxism or communism they would know exactly who he was.
Methinks its a shock value though no one knows who he is :roll:
idiots
I have a Che shirt and I KNOW what I wear if for


I know exactly who he was and what he did. He was a f*****g terrorist who killed thousands of people, most of them innocent. He personally shot some of them, and many were executed without a trial. Once, he even executed a child who was caught stealing food. I also think it's ironic that the T-shirts are marketed by capitalists.

Some quotes by Che Guevara:

"Hatred is an element of struggle; relentless hatred of the enemy that impels us over and beyond the natural limitations of man and transforms us into effective, violent, selective, and cold killing machines. Our soldiers must be thus; a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy."

"To send men to the firing squad, judicial proof is unnecessary. These procedures are an archaic bourgeois detail. This is a revolution! And a revolutionary must become a cold killing machine motivated by pure hate."

In most cases I'm against capital punishment, but Che Guevara deserved to die.


_________________
WP doesn't have a working first amendment.

Fuck. This will override the swear word filter.


Kilroy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,549
Location: Beyond the Void

09 Dec 2007, 1:40 pm

yeah I dout he actually said those things
2 words
capitalist propoganda!
and your all full of it



Reodor_Felgen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,300

09 Dec 2007, 1:54 pm

Kilroy wrote:
yeah I dout he actually said those things
2 words
capitalist propoganda!
and your all full of it


I may be a capitalist, but it has been proved many times that communism doesn't work. These quotes are documented.

Here's a list of people executed by Che Guevara between 1957 and 1959:
http://www.cubaarchive.org/downloads/CA08.pdf

He later proceeded to killing severeal thousands of people. He also helped Fidel Castro, one of the last corrupt dictators, during the revolution. Humberto Fontova wrote a book named Exposing the Real Che Guevara and the Useful Idiots Who Idolize Him. It reveals who Che Guevara actually was. Because of socialistic propaganda, many people see him as a hero.


_________________
WP doesn't have a working first amendment.

Fuck. This will override the swear word filter.


Kilroy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,549
Location: Beyond the Void

09 Dec 2007, 1:58 pm

yes is also because of capitalist propoganda he is seen as a tyrant
take Hitler for ex-I hate the facist son of a b***h, but he did some outlandish things with little resorses
when he became head of Germany the country was a hole but in a few short years he turned it into a superpower
communism may not work too well, (socialism does)
but point is you can't beleive every little thing you read



richardbenson
Xfractor Card #351
Xfractor Card #351

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,553
Location: Leave only a footprint behind

09 Dec 2007, 2:08 pm

yes capalism is so evil! so im gonna wear my che tshirt. if its so evil, go live in china or cuba and see how you like it. :lol:
i bet you wont be able to practice your religion openly



Reodor_Felgen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,300

09 Dec 2007, 2:09 pm

Kilroy wrote:
yes is also because of capitalist propoganda he is seen as a tyrant
take Hitler for ex-I hate the facist son of a b***h, but he did some outlandish things with little resorses
when he became head of Germany the country was a hole but in a few short years he turned it into a superpower
communism may not work too well, (socialism does)
but point is you can't beleive every little thing you read


I don't believe every little thing I read, that's why I don't support Che Guevara. I knew who the bastard was even before rich white kids started wearing Che Guevara T-shirts.

Che is seen as a tyrant because he killed innocent people, not because of capitalist propaganda. There are numerous sources stating this.

You can buy historically correct Che T-shirts here: http://che-mart.com/


_________________
WP doesn't have a working first amendment.

Fuck. This will override the swear word filter.


monty
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Sep 2007
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,741

09 Dec 2007, 2:14 pm

Why is Ronald Reagan seen as a hero? He sold weapons to terrorists in Iran and used the money to help terrorists in Nicaragua. When he got caught, he said "A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that’s true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not."

So his hand was caught in the cookie-jar of an illegal conspiracy, but because his heart was pure and he could talk about freedom in glittering terms, no sanctions, and he remains a hero to millions. What he actually did is less important to the American people than what he communicated he did.

People create heroes based on emotion. There is a need for mythic figures, but a shortage of humans who really fit those criteria. So we take flawed, murderous individuals and elevate them to saints. The same is true for Che - the fact that he actually did bad things pales next to Latin America's need for a strong figure that stands up to the colonial superpowers.



Kilroy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,549
Location: Beyond the Void

09 Dec 2007, 2:18 pm

Che is seen as a hero because he stood up against the capitalist tyrants who were making everyone poor
its why Lenin is seen as a hero as well



Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 46,152
Location: Houston, Texas

09 Dec 2007, 2:22 pm

And not only is Fidel Castro (actually, Raul Castro is the de facto leader of Cuba now) still as revolutionary as ever, but now we have Hugo Chavez, Evo Morales, and a slightly reformed Daniel Ortega playing follow the leader.

Tim


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!


Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

09 Dec 2007, 3:23 pm

Kilroy wrote:
Che is seen as a hero because he stood up against the capitalist tyrants who were making everyone poor
its why Lenin is seen as a hero as well

I wasn't even aware that Lenin was seen as a hero. To be honest, I thought that Trotsky was more often idolized.

Quote:
communism may not work too well, (socialism does)

The people who make this distinction usually don't really know what they are saying. Almost all things that we have labeled as communist are actually socialist. The USSR, the heart of communism, was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The USSR was socialist. Usually the people that say socialism works point to some Scandinavian country, even though most of them are actually seen by conservative organizations, such as the Heritage institute, as being more economically free(which probably should read pro-market) than most of Europe. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_e ... ic-freedom



Reodor_Felgen
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,300

09 Dec 2007, 3:35 pm

Kilroy wrote:
Che is seen as a hero because he stood up against the capitalist tyrants who were making everyone poor
its why Lenin is seen as a hero as well


The only thing the revolution did was to replace a corrupt dictator with an even more corrupt dictator, and kill thousands of innocent people in the process. Most people in Cuba are poor today. If you overlook the health care, Cuba hasn't improved at all since the revolution. Instead of making some people poor, communism makes everyone who doesn't have a high rank within the communist party poor. Che didn't stand up against Batista because he saw his politics as injustice, but because Che and Fidel wanted HIS power.

Singapore has improved a lot for the last 20 years, thanks to international trade and capitalism. The same thing could have happened to Cuba if someone else had overthrown Batista and stopped Fidel and Che in the process.


_________________
WP doesn't have a working first amendment.

Fuck. This will override the swear word filter.