The dangers of religion and morality

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Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I've sworn off talking about this stuff, since it is somewhat of an obsession, and it tends to make people think I am some sort of jackass. But here goes, maybe just this one last time.

As I now understand religion and morality, they are to help one escape the control of that very subconcious that you are talking about. It requires a great deal of concious thought and control, but that is the point I think. I mean it seems like that is the only point. It's not like "you should do this because god likes it" "don't do that, he hates that"
It's about becoming more concious. If you can't help yourself at some particular moment, no big deal, don't sweat it, but just knowing that what you did was wrong means that you are becoming more concious.
I think this is why people say that just asking forgiveness is enough.
It's just a matter of recognizing mistakes and trying to do better.

That is just my own personal theory, and things have started to make a lot of sense to me from this sort of perspective.

Ante

I think You are giving the subconscious to much credit. The subconscious may sense things first but it is the consciousness that reacts to it. We are conscious beings, we react from what we see and feel. Even are emotions react in the same way, subconsciously will reacts first then are consciousness reacts to what we are feeling emotionally. Your conscience is always their so you can react. A person subconscious can never subjugate your conscience from yourself.

We individually are the ones that set our standards for morality, we may use some set standards but it is up to Us to decide what are the standards for Us are as a INDIVIDUAL. It does not matter if you are religious or not you will set your own standards in your own mind that is what we all do as individuals. It does not matter if it comes from religion or a government or as society itself. These rules are made for the most part that we do not hurt are ourselves or others.
It is up to Us to decide what these rules really mean to Us as a INDIVIDUAL and how We as INDIVIDUALS want to live by them.

You're right, Ante. This whole thing we call reality is just an experiment by aliens or powerful computers who have kept us trapped inside machines that makes us think our lives are this crappy. We have no free will. So, I say don't let them do it. f**k with the experiment. Go shoot some people in a mall.

the sunconscious - and, perhaps more importantly, the unconscious - have a far more powerful effect than you suggest, kevv729. the difference between reaction and response is important here, too.

morality is a cultural/societal concept, and is generally set up in order to ensure the smooth running of the group (society in this case).

as for the "you can't be immoral if you don't know" - well, that's either being amoral, or having diminished responsibility.

Which is immoral. But, of course, there's no such thing as good, evil, or morality, as that's all a load of bull made up by religions and governments to control the masses. And don't tell me 'that's something evil people say'! Responsibility is a myth. It's immoral (don't tell me I'm contradicting myself!) to deny ourselves of our natural impulses.

I'm going to go eat some babies now.

Last edited by Thagomizer on 30 Oct 2005, 1:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

thagomizer - could you please remove the (obviously) offensive sentence from your post.

thank you.

Vivi
(as Mod)

vetivert

Your subconscious or as You state unconscious, yes they have very powerful effects on the consciousness of the mind, but truly in the end it is up to Your own conscience self in the end that makes the decision. Thats what I was trying to say. It is the decisions that You make is how You will react to the reaction or respond to reaction. So that response to the reaction then becomes Your decision. They have important roles to play but truly in the end conscience that play the more important role in it.

I dont see how religion has an authority on morals. I have heard religious people saying before that they would just do what they wanted regardless of others if they didnt think there was a God. This is immoral. So i must conclude that atheists who choose to live with a decent set of morals are far superior to Christians because they feel the need for a ghost to tell them what is right or wrong and if they dont get the reward of everlasting life by following those rules then they dont want to be good boys and girls any more. Im surprised there are still adults out there willing to believe in ghost stories but on it goes.........

Outside of the religion debate, i agree with seperate points made by spacemonkey and vetivert that you can recognize what wrong things your subconcious is deciding sometimes but not always and it is a lesser evil than what you do in the forefront of your thoughts.

eamonn

A ghost has never told me what is right or wrong. It is up to You to decide what is right or wrong, it is free will for the individual to decide, not a ghost.

not according to fundies, it ain't, matey.

vetivert

Can You explain to me I am not British to understand what You said

quote "not according to the fundies,it ain't,matey."

Remember I am from America and from South Dakota.

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Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

i think morality isnt bad, it depends on the kind of moral.
it shoulnd be dogmatic, thats all.

I understand what you are getting at.
My point is that morality is not something you need to practice "or else", and if you have some mental problem, too bad.

The way I see it conciousness is a skill or an art. Morality is the guide to honing that skill. So if you have some impairment, no one is going to hold it against you, you just may not be able to achieve the same level of conciousness as say, a saint. Better luck next time.

I as a religious person believe psychology and psychiatry can be used to help a person that needs the help. Psychology and psychiatry are valid medical practices and can be used by even the religious person too.

Even I have brain damage the cause of having cerebral palsy and having seizures in my life. This does not stop me from being moral or trying to live a moral life. By my own standards I try to live my own life. We all might have impairments in are life that we might need to work on, and improve on in our lives.