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How to beat your wife...

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Is beating wives wrong?
I'm a conservative, and yes. 32%  32%  [ 15 ]
I'm a conservative, and no. 11%  11%  [ 5 ]
I'm a liberal, and yes. 49%  49%  [ 23 ]
I'm a liberal, and no. 9%  9%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 47

Ragtime
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02 Nov 2007, 1:42 pm

...the Saudi way.

(I voted that it's wrong, by the way. I'm not a Muslim, and I don't believe in wife beating.)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,307680,00.html

Quote:
Move over, Dr. Phil, there's a new relationship expert in town.

He's Saudi author and cleric, "Dr." Muhammad Al-'Arifi, who in a remarkable segment broadcast on Saudi and Kuwaiti television in September, counseled young Muslim men on how to treat their wives.

"Admonish them – once, twice, three times, four times, ten times," he advised. "If this doesn't help, refuse to share their beds."

And if that doesn't work?

"Beat them," one of his three young advisees responded.

"That's right," Al-'Arifi said.

Click here to view the segment at MEMRITV.org

He goes on to calmly explain to the young men that hitting their future wives in the face is a no-no.

"Beating in the face is forbidden, even when it comes to animals," he explained. "Even if you want your camel or donkey to start walking, you are not allowed to beat it in the face. If this is true for animals, it is all the more true when it comes to humans. So beatings should be light and not in the face."

His final words of wisdom?

"Woman, it has gone too far. I can't bear it anymore," he tells the men to tell their wives. "If he beats her, the beatings must be light and must not make her face ugly.

"He must beat her where it will not leave marks. He should not beat her on the hand... He should beat her in some places where it will not cause any damage. He should not beat her like he would beat an animal or a child -- slapping them right and left.

"Unfortunately, many husbands beat their wives only when they get mad, and when they start beating, it as if they are punching a wall – they beat with their hands, right and left, and sometimes use their feet. Brother, it is a human being you are beating. This is forbidden. He must not do this."


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LePetitPrince
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02 Nov 2007, 3:19 pm

....and juliekitty says that I am women-basher . At least i am an angel compared to the islamistes :roll:

this was the reason#1 that made me to leave Islam (before realizing the lies and the scientific errors of all religions )



LePetitPrince
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02 Nov 2007, 3:20 pm

oops wrong vote .... i meant "I'm a liberal, and yes." :oops:



Kilroy
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02 Nov 2007, 4:41 pm

I'm a wiccan
no party truely accepts the wiccan ways so I don't vote for them



Othila
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02 Nov 2007, 4:41 pm

Quote:
Beating in the face is forbidden, even when it comes to animals," he explained. "Even if you want your camel or donkey to start walking, you are not allowed to beat it in the face. If this is true for animals, it is all the more true when it comes to humans. So beatings should be light and not in the face."


This sounds like typical domestic violence behavior. I don't really see any cultural differences here except that in the Western world men are encouraged to hide their abuse more. I think the man who wrote this should be castrated not because he takes a sick pleasure in beating his wife (wives?) but because he is actually stupid enough to believe that by hitting an animal you can modify it's behavior. I hope his animals attack him and end up ripping his face off before the castration of course. :D



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02 Nov 2007, 4:49 pm

Kilroy wrote:
I'm a wiccan
no party truely accepts the wiccan ways so I don't vote for them


What exactly constitutes 'true acceptance'?



psych
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02 Nov 2007, 5:20 pm

I refuse to be categorised into your conservative/liberal paradign.



monty
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02 Nov 2007, 7:06 pm

I'm not sure what my Bible says about beating my wife, but the good book is pretty clear on how I can sell my daughter into slavery, or convert my my female slaves into wives.

Quote:
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


And the Bible is clear on how to beat your slaves:

Quote:
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)



Ragtime
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02 Nov 2007, 7:18 pm

psych wrote:
I refuse to be categorised into your conservative/liberal paradign.


Okay, but since you're replying, what's your position on wife beating?



Ragtime
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02 Nov 2007, 7:27 pm

monty wrote:
I'm not sure what my Bible says about beating my wife, but the good book is pretty clear on how I can sell my daughter into slavery, or convert my my female slaves into wives.

Quote:
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


And the Bible is clear on how to beat your slaves:

Quote:
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)


Of course, modern Christianity is against slavery and maltreatment, whereas modern Islam is for all kinds of maltreatment, up to and including murder of the "infidel". (See 9/11) Women have to be covered from head to toe, and walk behind their husbands everywhere they go. They do not have the right to be educated, or vote.

Also, please post an answer to the thread's question. What's your position on wife beating?



psych
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02 Nov 2007, 7:38 pm

Ragtime wrote:
psych wrote:
I refuse to be categorised into your conservative/liberal paradign.


Okay, but since you're replying, what's your position on wife beating?


I sense that it is a destructive and anti-spiritual activity that will not deliver any real joy to those who practise it.



psych
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02 Nov 2007, 7:51 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Of course, modern Christianity is against slavery and maltreatment, whereas modern Islam is for all kinds of maltreatment, up to and including murder of the "infidel". (See 9/11) Women have to be covered from head to toe, and walk behind their husbands everywhere they go. They do not have the right to be educated, or vote.


This is a gross misrepresentation. female muslims in London freely walk about on their own. Id be surprised if this is not also the case in (for example) Turkey, where Islam is the dominant religion.

Ive read translations of the most controversial bits of the quran and some of it is repulsive, but you are comparing 'modern' christianity & Islam. You have to look at the whole muslim world and not just Iran, Saudi, Eygpt etc. The specific laws of which can all vary btw, and fluctate depending on the political climate.



monty
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02 Nov 2007, 7:55 pm

Ragtime wrote:
....

Also, please post an answer to the thread's question. What's your position on wife beating?


I'm still looking for my opinion in the Bible. OK?

Beating can be good for the spirit, according to Proverbs:

Quote:
Blows and wounds cleanse away evil, and beatings purge the inmost being. PROV 20:30


It is not clear if women's innermost being is capable of being developed, so perhaps this does not apply. On the other hand, sons should be beaten:

Quote:
He that spareth his rod hateth his son. PROV 13:24


Again, it doesn't say that daughters should be beaten, only sons. Probably for the same reason that women must cover their heads when praying, and must remain silent in a place of worship: they are inferior to men, and cannot be raised to a man's level by any method, let alone beating. On the other hand, daughters can be sold into slavery, and then beaten, but that is outsourcing the beating and the father that sold his daughter into slavery is not morally responsible for it.

I do know that I might have to cut my wife's hands off:

Quote:
If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity. Deut 25:11



Last edited by monty on 02 Nov 2007, 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

alex
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02 Nov 2007, 7:56 pm

Ragtime wrote:
...the Saudi way.

(I voted that it's wrong, by the way. I'm not a Muslim, and I don't believe in wife beating.)


wait, please tell me you're not implying that wife beating is something muslims believe in


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psych
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02 Nov 2007, 8:01 pm

Also, i note your from Texas. Ive been led to believe (but havent done any research myself) that Texas is widely regarded as a relatively sexist place (compared to most other states & western western nations) Often ive heard people remark that the justice system is institutionally sexist, and that a woman convicted of killing her husband can expect a harsher sentence than vice-versa.

If true, then as its possible that a good proportion of those murders are related to severe domestic abuse, then it could be argued that through gender-disproportionate sentencing, the Texan authorities are showing a permissive approach to wife-beating.



Ragtime
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02 Nov 2007, 9:05 pm

alex wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
...the Saudi way.

(I voted that it's wrong, by the way. I'm not a Muslim, and I don't believe in wife beating.)


wait, please tell me you're not implying that wife beating is something muslims believe in


No, Saudi author and cleric Muhammad Al-'Arifi is implying that. Also, sura 4 of the Qur'an.