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Feste-Fenris
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27 Jun 2005, 5:18 am

Is genetically engineered food good or bad for you?

The shelves of our supermarkets are already full of Genetically Engineered foods. From popcorn and tomatoes, to beans and berries - they are all around us. Farmers are growing larger amounts of them every year, and multinational corporations in pursuit of profits are investing billions of dollars on research and development of GE foods. And I think that's great!!

Genetically Engineered foods can be produced in greater quantities, in greater varieties, and at lower costs than traditional foods - the trend seems almost inevitable. Yet, there are many people and organisations crying aloud the extreme dangers of GE foods. Some go as far as demanding that they be banned altogether.

Who is right? And who HAS the right to ban them anyway?

To answer these questions, let us start by simply describing what GE foods are. Genetically Engineered foods are produced when genes are transferred from one species to another. In this way, physical attributes are also transferred. As a simple example, a 'frost-resistance gene' transferred to tropical plants might allow them to grow in cold weather.

For the first time in human history scientists are controlling life at the genetic level, and by any standard they are doing amazing things -amazing things in mapping human genomes, amazing things in medical research using genetic modification, and amazing things in genetic modifications of food.

Consider: Swiss scientists recently inserted a gene into a variety of rice that has the effect of increasing production of beta-carotene, essential for making vitamin A. Each year, two million children die, and half a million go blind for the lack of vitamin A. Over one hundred million others suffer from its deficiency. This new Genetically Engineered rice has the potential to put an end to all this suffering and dying.

Or, consider this: Researchers at Novartis Seeds developed vegetables resistant to one of the world's most harmful plant infections. They have identified a naturally occurring virus resistance gene and have transferred it to tomatoes, melons, lettuce and peppers, giving them immunity from infections.

Or try this: A GE brand of potato has been produced that is resistant to leaf roll viruses and to beetles. It was planted in Colorado and it was proved that NO insecticides were needed.

Or consider this: GE soya beans are being produced that are weed-resistant and herbicide-tolerant - herbicide use drops as much as 40% in some cases.

Farmers seeking to produce food have of course long had to fight innumerable pests and parasites in order to do so. One such is the terrible corn borer, which destroys the corn from the inside out. To combat it Bt corn was engineered. Usually six sprays of insecticide are needed to safeguard traditional hybrid corn; Bt corn needs only one.

Another such parasite, and the biggest pest farmers and producers currently have to face, is the environmentalist movement. They denounce farmers and businessmen as wicked on the face of it, 'proving' it by pointing out their profit motive in all this. Unfortunately, many producers have accepted this unearned guilt, and damned themselves for it. THEY SHOULD NOT! Profit is not only their appropriate reward for their efforts, it is also the best protection WE have that foods produced in this way will NOT be toxic - after all, ya can't make huge profits by killing your customers! There are - properly - already laws on the books against selling poisoned food - we do not need any more! What we DO need is for the businessmen and the scientists who produced these products to stop apologising for them, to stand up for their right to profit by their work, and to point out the pseudo-scientific quackery that their environmentalist opponents are peddling.

Ladies and gentlemen, I suggest that the real problem here today is not one of poisoned food, but of poisoned minds! Of minds poisoned against profits, poisoned against science, and poisoned against reason - which underpins both. The battle is not one ABOUT profits; it is a battle FOR the right to profit from one's work. The battle is not in fact one OF science, but FOR science!! For with increasing unreason, science - and production - will not be able to survive!

Consider: Former Canadian Greenpeace advisor, Dr William Plaxton, Professor of Biochemistry at Queen's University in Ontario, recently resigned FROM Greenpeace because of the increasing irrationality of activists. As he pointed out: "Activists concerned about the safety of GM foods often say that they require more testing - then if that's the case," he asks, "why vandalise test plots that would establish either danger, or safety?" Why indeed? Perhaps our own dreadlocked eco-vandal can explain that absurdity?

Consider: This govt imposes a moratorium on GE food research, while making its own stand against business abundantly clear: "No one needs genetically modified food," they say, "except the companies investing in it. The only reason for its existence is to increase agribusiness profits." So? What's wrong with profits?

Or consider Greenpeace again: "Trade in GE food and crops is dominated by a handful of multinational corporations," they pontificate. "It is widely believed that these are the only beneficiaries of genetically engineered foods." Believed? By whom? Why ignore the usual beneficiaries of any deal - the participants? The farmers, their families, their communities, and the consumers.

And why evade that businesses not only have every right to make a profit, but in fact they cannot exist WITHOUT a profit; nor yet can they make a profit by offering unhealthy food to their customers. Their statements really mean that they would see businesses go to the wall, rather than have them make a profit. They would rather watch all of us starve, than see any of us prosper.

Environmentalists also claim that GE foods are dangerous - or potentially dangerous - to consumers and to the environment. Environmentalist scare stories against - well, everything really - from global warming, to global cooling, even to the over hyped and non-existent millennium bug - all are littered with the words: 'may' 'perhaps' 'might' 'could'... they seek to reverse cause and effect, and to reverse the burden of proof, making this food - and the scientists and businessmen who produce it - guilty, before any presumption of innocence. People! It is not possible to prove a negative! Yet that is the irrationality producers today are faced with. Does that bother environmental activists? Do their own irrational, and sometimes manufactured claims, disturb them? Not a bit! As One Greenpeace organiser has said publicly: "Our purpose is not to be scientifically correct; that's the corporation and robber-baron's job!" Did you get that? "Our purpose," she says, "is NOT to be scientifically correct"!

Very well, let us take them at their word, and ignore their science. But let us question their purpose. Patrick Moore - who founded Greenpeace, but who is another to leave over the increasing irrationality of environmental activists - observes the purpose: "The environmental movement abandoned science and logic somewhere in the mid '80's," he says, "just as mainstream society was adopting all the more reasonable items on the environmental agenda. This was because many environmentalists couldn't make the transition from confrontation to consensus, and couldn't get out of adversarial politics. This particularly applies to political activists, who use environmental rhetoric to cover up agendas that have more top do with class warfare and anti-corporatism than they do with the actual science of the environment". In short, once the Berlin Wall came down, and capitalism won, the socialists had to find a new approach. This approach, ladies and gentlemen, is the Greening of Socialism - they simply joined a new movement, but never changed their goals.

This, I remind you, is being pointed out by the former founder of Greenpeace. Think he's wrong? Green Party leader Jeanette Fitzsimons, protesting recently over field trials on sheep to try and cure cystic fibrosis in human beings, announced that 'we shouldn't promote human health and long life - because it's "unnatural"!' Unnatural! To promote human life! I remind you that this woman holds the balance of power in this parliament, and she thinks it 'unatural' to promote human life! We should instead, she says "have respect for ALL life" - effectively placing human life on a par with the smallpox bacillus and the Aids virus! I have a very simple message for Mzzzzzz Fitzsimplesimons: f**k you!! If you want to grant equal status to your sad little life, and to that of the smallpox virus, then fine by me. But leave me - and sufferers of cystic fibrosis - out of your little suicide pact.

So, their purpose is anti-life, and their arguments reveal their ignorance. What they unwillingly admit is the knowledge that there were no damaging health effects observed since the introduction of GE crops, in 1996. Today, these cover about a hundred million acres in the US. This means that more than one hundred billion kilos of GE foods were produced last year alone! Our shelves, as I said, are already full of them, YET THERE IS NOT ONE CLEARLY DOCUMENTED CASE OF A COMMERCIAL GE PRODUCT HARMING A HUMAN BEING!

The arbitrary assertion that GE foods are potentially dangerous - that they may possibly be harmful in some unknown way at some unknown time is no reason for banning them. On the contrary - BECAUSE the assertions are arbitrary is precisely the reason that the assertions themselves should be ignored - and so too should the peddlers of such tripe! All available evidence indicates that GE foods are safe for our health and offer no greater health risks than do traditionally produced foods.

In regard to harming our environment, the opposite is true: GE foods actually make our environment much better, requiring fewer pesticides and insecticides, reducing or even eliminating populations of insects, weeds and parasites, and by producing more food with less land, making more land available for other uses. But the best change they bring in our environment happens in our supermarket shelves, where we find them stocked with ever more variety, and ever better quality. Just one example is the GE tomato that stays firmer for longer.

By manipulating plants still further with the new technology, scientists will be able to produce more nutritious and healthy food, with higher protein and vitamin contents.

New varieties of fruit and vegetables will be created that will enrich our choices and delight our tastes. We soon might even see food especially engineered to combat disease, such as the production of sheep's milk to combat cystic fibrosis - a possible cure that Fitzsimplesimons finds so 'unnatural'. . It is important to note that increased yields will follow as a DIRECT consequence of fewer losses in better protected crops, making food cheaper and more plentiful in the future.

Ladies and gentlemen - and students - We are at the beginning of a revolution in agriculture that promises to change and improve our health and lives in unimaginable ways. All we need to achieve a better future is to leave scientists and businessmen free to research, to create, to produce and to trade, and leave us free to choose; free to purchase - or not - the things they produce.

Science and business together, relying on reason in an environment of freedom, have delivered and will keep delivering constant improvements in our existence, and ever longer life expectancy. Our lives will be healthier, longer and more pleasurable - IF we get out of the way, and leave them free to produce. Don't let the environmentalists scare you, and make no mistake: In fighting for GE foods we are fighting for our lives.



duncvis
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27 Jun 2005, 5:30 am

8O *cough* BOLLOCKS *cough*


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Ante
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27 Jun 2005, 7:16 am

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vetivert
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27 Jun 2005, 9:23 am

duncvis wrote:
8O *cough* BOLLOCKS *cough*


GOOMH! i was going to write that!

another one sucked in by the media machine, funded by the agrichemical multinationals...

p.s. i happen to be an (ex)dredlocked (and still) eco warrior, in case you're interested.



Feste-Fenris
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27 Jun 2005, 12:51 pm

This article is asking questions about the anti-biotech crop movement...

What is so bad about GM crops? Is there necessarily anything bad about GM crops which could not be said for fluoridated water or childhood vaccines?

GM crops ARE made by huge corporations that make lots of money off of it... but isn't this what capitalism is all about? Isn't capitalism about selling an efficient product you designed... and making lots of money off of it?

This article is from a libertarian webzine... libertarians essentially believe that American Capitalism is the most pragmatic form of freedom in recent history... I don't really agree with them but they do raise good points about progress...

There are two arguments against GM crops (primarily); that they are made by large, American corporations (as is 95% of everything in your house) and that they are potentially dangerous (theoretically yes)... these are the same arguments ultra-conservatives used against fluouridated water in the 50's and 60's...

How many people have died recently from fluoridated water? Or from vaccines made by big corporations?

The anti-biotech movement uses vague fearmongering and unprovable scare tactics so often that they should join the U.S. Republican party...

How can you logically prove that genetically modified crops are not dangerous? Anti-biotech people are unwilling to have these crops tested (they rip them out when given half the chance) so how are we logically supposed to prove that they're safe?

I don't really like big corporations... but if they can fight world hunger... what's so bad?

How can anti-biotech activists oppose technological progress; while living in a world of laptops, cellphones, fiber-optics and satellite uplinks?

How come farmers aren't allowed to benefit from information-age capitalism? While the rest of us are!



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27 Jun 2005, 12:59 pm

Do yourself a favour mate and google 'Monsanto' - you might become a little more sceptical. You also seem to have overlooked the effect of planting bioengineered crops on biodiversity and habitat, and the fact that these expensively trademarked grains etc are marketed to farmers with no way of saving a portion of the yield to plant the next year - forcing the farmer to buy more year after year.

Dunc


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Feste-Fenris
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27 Jun 2005, 1:01 pm

List all the diseases and health problems commonly caused by genetically modified foods:

If genetically modified foods were so dangerous; why aren't people in Canada, the U.S. and Japan dying like rats from it?

You see; the anti-biotech movement (and they are against biotechnology... it's almost like a religion) uses vague fears... the same sort of vague, undefinable fears which Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld use to erode civil liberties...

Genetically modified food COULD be dangerous in the near future... and terrorists COULD strike at any time... it's the same vague fearmongering...

Why is biotech food hurting people in the UK and Europe when they have no substantial GM crops?

I have a few dozen farmers as friends... most of them think genetically engineered crops and feed are good ideas... that should be applied with care...

Shouldn't we let the farmers decide what products they want to grow and sell? And not the government or the activist left?



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27 Jun 2005, 1:07 pm

I am sceptical mate... only towards you...

I agree that Monsanto has acted unethically... but the progressive left cannot simply rely on calling big corporations and middle America "evil" and ending the debate there...

What about biotech crops made by companies other than Monsanto? Surely not all big corporations are evil... even if that was the case this does not prove that their products are dangerous...

I myself dislike corporate America... they're hypocritical and greedy... but if hypocritical and greedy companies can feed millions of people using superior technology... that's not a bad day..

Quote:
Dear Cecil:

What's the deal with genetically engineered food? I read that vast quantities of food crops are being genetically engineered to withstand the effects of herbicides better so that farmers can dump more herbicides in their fields without worrying about crop loss. Jeez. Other crops manufacture their own pesticides so they kill bugs having the temerity to take a bite of them. Doesn't exactly ring my come-to-dinner bell, ya know?

So what are the potential effects of eating genetically engineered food, what could this ultimately do to the food chain, and why are so many of our food crops being monkeyed with, with barely a peep from the press? --Lory, via AOL

Dear Lory:

Barely a peep? Inkwise I admit genetic engineering hasn't ranked up there with Leonardo DiCaprio, but an archive search for the past decade turned up over 500 articles in everything from Time to the Whole Earth Review. True, the subject hasn't been front-page news, but that's because little front-page news (e.g., environmental disasters) has occurred. The concern is over what might.

There are two basic arguments against genetic engineering: the Frankenstein's monster argument and the "frigging Monsanto" argument. (Monsanto, a big supplier of engineered seed, has been a lightning rod for criticism, but it's got company.)

The Frankenstein argument--maybe I should call it the Jurassic Park argument--is that genetic engineers are messing with a process they only dimly understand and by combining pieces of DNA in unnatural ways they're taking the chance that something will go horribly wrong. This exaggerates the complexity of what genetic engineers do. Gene splicing is ingenious, but the result in most cases is that you cause cells to produce, or fail to produce, a single protein. This is like turning a single bolt in a car. Sure, loosen it too much and an important part of the car might fall off. But generally it's possible to anticipate, and make allowances for, the things that might go wrong.

For example, Monsanto makes a genetically engineered soybean seed that's highly resistant to a weed killer Monsanto conveniently also happens to make. You plant the soybeans and douse the field with the weed killer, which kills everything but the beans. No tillage to eliminate weeds, no soil erosion--happy day! But, say the critics, suppose this weed-killer-resistant soybean cross-pollinates with the weeds; then you'd have weed-killer-resistant superweeds! Sure, say the scientists, but this is an obvious problem, easily prevented. (In principle at least. There may be a little problem with canola, but that's a story for another day.) Similarly, one variety of engineered corn produces its own pesticide. Will the stuff hurt people too? Obvious problem, obvious solution: test and find out. Answer: no.

The point isn't that nothing can ever go wrong with genetically engineered crops. But due to the nature of the process, the risks are usually modest and controllable in relation to the benefits. Contrast that with the wildly risky agricultural practices of the past, in which entire organisms, not just genes, were transplanted into foreign habitats--e.g., kudzu, which was introduced to the southeastern U.S. from Japan and spread rapidly, covering trees and denying them sunlight. Those were the real environmental fiascoes.

That brings us to the frigging-Monsanto argument. Genetically engineered seed is developed and sold by huge corporations whose first concern is their own profit. Monsanto's seed, after all, is designed for use with Monsanto's herbicide. Plus you're locked into the whole capital-intensive, high-input agribusiness rat race. Frigging Monsanto! But the culprit is industrial capitalism, not genetic engineering per se.

Still, the big-business aspect of genetic engineering does give one pause. Consider the crop you mentioned that makes its own pesticide. The toxin is the same one produced by a naturally occurring organism called Bt, which organic farmers use to control bugs. If, due to genetic engineering, the toxin is found in every leaf and branch of a crop, Bt-resistant pests may soon evolve. The big agribusiness companies will move on to some other pesticide, but organic farmers will be screwed. I'm not worried about genetic engineering in itself but rather the ends to which it'll be put.

--CECIL ADAMS



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27 Jun 2005, 1:09 pm

duncvis wrote:
Do yourself a favour mate and google 'Monsanto' - you might become a little more sceptical. You also seem to have overlooked the effect of planting bioengineered crops on biodiversity and habitat, and the fact that these expensively trademarked grains etc are marketed to farmers with no way of saving a portion of the yield to plant the next year - forcing the farmer to buy more year after year.

Dunc


especially as a vast quantity of GM grain etc. is sent to the developing world, where they then have to shell out for all the pesticides and s**t needed to grow the buggers, AND the fact that they don't self seed, so they have to buy new seed every year. etc., etc., etc. it's never as straightforward as they'd have you believe.



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27 Jun 2005, 1:11 pm

Feste-Fenris wrote:
I myself dislike corporate America... they're hypocritical and greedy... but if hypocritical and greedy companies can feed millions of people using superior technology... that's not a bad day..


so why are there still millions with an inadequate food supply, then? and why ain't they eating it themselves?



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27 Jun 2005, 1:15 pm

I agree that big corporations are greedy...

But this itself does not prove biotech food is untrustworthy or dangerous...

First the activist left criticizes corporate America for not trying to feed people in Africa... then the activist left criticizes corporate America for selling people in Africa their agricultural products... then the activist left criticizes corporate America for bathing salads in chlorine... and finally it criticizes corporate America for having salads full of e.coli bacteria...

Just what is corporate America supposed to do?

We in the progressive side of the political spectrum have not been fair to corporate America... while they are greedy and self-interested; so is everybody else on the planet to a degree... no matter what big corporations do (and some of it is unethical; in all fairness) the self-proclaimed "eco-warriors" will behave self-righteously superior to it; while not directly solving the problem...

Is your beef really with genetically engineered crops; or with the big corporations who manufacture them? If the government made genetically engineered engineered crops would it be any better?

What if universities made them? Is it possible big, greedy corporations can solve a worldwide problem?



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27 Jun 2005, 1:18 pm

The reason there are millions of people with an inadequate food supply is due primarily to economic reasons instead of biological ones...

Africa is so poor it cannot afford it's own grain... and constant wars and ethnic violence don't exactly gild a yellow-brick-road...

It is possible that large corporations could solve Africa's problems instead of aggravating them... American corporations seem to have helped Japan after World War II for example...



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27 Jun 2005, 1:19 pm

Feste-Fenris wrote:
Just what is corporate America supposed to do?


pmsl!

i cannot actually answer this question without being banned, so i expect that tells you exactly what i wanted to say anyway :)



duncvis
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27 Jun 2005, 1:22 pm

Ditto


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Feste-Fenris
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27 Jun 2005, 1:34 pm

I don't like corporate America very much...

As I've said before; they're at least as greedy and hypocritical as American politicians...

That said; if big corporations can increase crop yields and allow farmers a more reliable source of income... that's not a bad day...

Do you dislike American corporations because they make GM crops; or do you dislike GM crops because they're made by American corporations?

If GM crops were made by universities or government bureaus; what would be so bad?

I have criticized big American corporations before; but the fact is that corporate greed has solved more economic problems than all other logistical forces in history... the notion that big American companies are inherently evil is something only a leftist could believe...

Most farmers I've talked to are either ambivalent or in favour of genetically engineered crops... is it possible that farmers will want to act in their own economic interests?

If farmers want to plant GM crops; and large corporations want to sell them such; what right do non-farmers have to tell them different?



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27 Jun 2005, 4:17 pm

i "dislike" GM crops because they're GM crops.