U.S. of A.

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I always knew there were people outside the U.S. here who hate us for who we are, but with all the katrina talk here on the board, it seems as if the hate for the US is more wide reaching than I ever imagined.

For all of our members here outside of the US, just what do you and people who know think of our country?

Don't be afriad to hold back your thoughts, but please, lets not have this erupt into one big argument.

Being a USian, myself, I will say nothing except that I have talked to European folks on Aspie chats and they have quite a few criticisms of the US.

I think much of the world is shaking their heads at our behavior and I don't blame them in the least.

There are criticisms aimed at the US from outside of it but it seems to me that those who feel criticse feel very strongly about it, so they will launch into a tirade whatever the excuse.

One thing I would say in their defence is that they are criticising the Political Establishment rather than the US itself or its people.

While many of the self-appointed liberal intelligentsia in the UK for example strike a pose against the US, they are not shy of embracing the cultural artifacts of that country, nor of visiting it.

I suppose it could be seen as being faintly hypocritical for the British to be attacking the US over its political system while painting ours as being perfect when we have so many structural inequalities that only go unmentioned because the inequalities are largely invisible and they do not chime with liberal sentiments.

I know I have annoyed at least one person today over my strong and seemingly relentless criticisms about the US and its handling of affairs. My aim is to attack the right-wing establishment there, not the people who are forced to live under it. I want to try to get through to people that Bush is an idiot, that the wrong people have to much power such as the oil companies and the fundamentalist Christians.

I am trying to say that in times of disaster, like this now, the people of the US (whom I hold in equal regard to people of the UK, and other countries) need a strong leader who will LISTEN to what they want and be RELIED upon to sort out any disasters like the one that has just happened, instead of pandering to the rich.

The citizens of America (especially those who are powerless) deserve an answer from Bush. Among other things, they want the truth about how Bush even got in at all, considering the vote rigging at the 2000 election.

If Bush cannot answer this in a satisfactory way, he should resign.

I don't want Bush representing me in the world. I feel ashamed right now to be an American.

Interesting question...

The US, to me, represents a few things... If you think about it from the beginning, before the US was made... The world was ruled by the British, the French, and Europe (come on, no one was bigger than England and France back then ). In their society everyone was following the latest fashion, the newest fad etc. Like NT society now...

If you think about it, US was started by Aspies... It was that eras Aspie, the ones who were bucking the trend, going against society... But what are they now? They're NT to the Nth degree. A school yard bully who uses their power to get their way. Who stick their noses into a lot people's business, no wonder a lot of people are angry at them...

I believe it's only a matter of time till the US is challenged on the world stage, and not by terrorists either...


Of course what do I know?

GA

yes, the USA and Europe will be challenged by China in the next 2 decades. There will no doubt be a war with China (or so their doctrine says is inevitable) in 20 years or so. The West will lose this war and a totalitarian dictatorship will control the pacific shipping lanes and an entire sphere of influence.

I really don't see what the europeans don't like about the americans. The americans are always there protecting the europeans with hundreds of thousands of troops today protecting their soil. Never mind the hundreds of thousands of american soldiers who died for european freedom when they did not have to. Today they are fighting and dying for the freedom of middle easterners / asians (iraq, afghanistan). It really is no different from the Americans landing on normandy and fighting the germans out. Only in this case it was the Hussein clan from Tikrit who were in power and were brutalizing the population complete with ethnic cleansing and even attacking their neighbor for no good reason

If, as a european, you find the american sacrifices to defend your soil in the great war and cold war acceptable and honorable, then why cannot you extend this same respect and honor for their efforts in a different part of the world which has been gripped by death by iron fisted dictatorships and monarchies for centuries?

If is good enough for you, then why not for them? It is their freedom. Do you not want them to have the same freedom you do?

Or maybe we should just let Saddam, the Iran Islamic revolutionaries, and the corrupt monarchies and dictatorships of the middle east remain in power for a few more centuries because it offends your cosmopolitan sensibilities.

Act now or forever appease the tyrants.

but know this, whatever your response may be, I wish we had done the same for you. Perhaps this way, if you choose incorrectly, you would be in no position to choose at all.

What about the 49,000,000 people who voted for Bush? Or the millions who voted in a Republican majority in the house/senate? People who live in a democracy cannot be held blameless for the actions of the government they elect.


Or in the next 48 hours. President Xu will be visiting Canada and the USA this week. In the last few days China has basically said that although they don't wish to use nukes as an offensive weapon, they will stop at NOTHING to reclaim Taiwan and are warning the USA not to provide Taiwan with missile-defense equipment.


The USA seemed content to let Hitler have Europe, considering they declared themselves neutral in 1939 and only joined the war in Europe in 1942 when Hitler controlled everything but Britain. Roosevelt wanted to go to war earlier but there was no public support because most people thought they were a safe distance from all the action. The bombing of Pearl Harbour changed all that (which is why many people think Roosevelt knew about the Japanese attack in advance and allowed it to happen).

I disagree. We were an isolationist country still in depression with no substantial military-industrial base with which to create weapons of war and we certainly did not possess the capital necessary for such ventures. This was not the case in Germany; the german war machine was built and oiled by the time sept 1, 1939 came about.

The americans were in no position to rally around the defense of europe -again-. There was no public outcry to send another generation of american men to die for the adventures of europe's rulers (or so it would have seemed after world war one was started over next to nothing) FDR did rally support for the war only over time with fireside chats.The support of the populace was one problem, but the support of the populace is irrelevent if the industrial base to sustain military growth and operations is and will be nonexistant for the next few years - as the americans were still attempting to come out a depression.

Truth be told, there would have been no clean way to emerge from the depression quickly without building military arms and then actually using them. The sales under lend lease to Britain and Russia would not be repayed in full or nearly in full (taking into account inflation of course - one hundred dollars back then is not one hundred dollars back then). War was inevitable from a economic standpoint once production would reach full capacity and the bulk of the populace was contributing to the war effort throguh work.

Did FDR know about the Japanese attack? The US government was aware that a Japanese attack was imminent even though up until 20 minutes after the attack, the japanese were holding peace talks with the US ... which is quite amusing in itself

It's not so much FDR allowed it to happen, it's more like he didn't have miss cleo's phone number to ask her where the japanese fleet was at what point and what their intent was in attacking.

but then again, we have the benefit of hindsight and miss cleo's fabulous services at our disposal. don't we.

That is rather ironic coming from you guys... I can't think of any British PM with half a brain except Elizabeth I, Richard II and Henry II, and they were Monarchs. Your Prime Ministers without exception had a long catalog of appalling human rights violations, political and organisational stuff ups let alone Psychological disorders.


Personally I have nothing against Americans or the British as individuals, perhaps the sum of the parts IS greater than the whole.... . (And I still consider myself as a European)


Katze

I hate Bush and all the Americans that voted him. Oh and i dont see why i should like him just because there has been some terrible British leaders too. That is a nonsensical argument, i can hate them too. I have plenty of hate to go round.

EDIT
Actually i mean im angry with a lot of Bush's policies and want to hate him but when i see him on the telly he sounds quite funny and someone i wouldnt mind socialising with.

Last edited by eamonn on 05 Sep 2005, 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mr penguin, I do not like the attitude of the US as self appointed gods who see it in their right to strutt around the world imposing their capitalist ideals on people who do not want it.

Britain did have some awful leaders in history, but we have grown up in the last 50 years, and value peace. America has yet to achieve this.

America do not fight their wars for selfless reasons as you want to believe:

IRAQ: for oil, revenge, spreading capitalism

WW2: because you were attacked

COLD WAR: that was nothing to do with us

CUSTER'S LAST STAND: to steal all the native American's land for yourselves.

I think I have made my point

You have to expect a little arrogance though from a country that was founded on landgrabbing and ethnic cleansing.

I wouldn't take too much notice of the UK liberal contingent, we don't all hate your country over here; but, it does deserve some criticism — maybe a lot, in fact. On the positive side, I think we've got more in common with you yanks than any of our European neighbours.

Perhaps the UK socialists could take a closer look at how France has operated over the years. A country that embraces their ideology yet is far from a paragon of virtue: let's see... nuclear testing, torture, blowing-up Greenpeace protestors...

I guess my point it that Evil and Incompetence is more easily seen in another country other that the one we live in or in someone else. Hate Bush if you like, I am sure you have plenty of sound reasons to do this and base your argument on a truckload of facts. The worse for you.

Bush is the current Patsy and Decoy Duck, he is emblematic of the Administration, and the Decoy is working just fine. In three years time there will be another Decoy and you can go ahed and take pot shots at him (or her). My bet is that whoever will be the next President wil be just as 'stupid, Incompetent and useless' as Bush has been. Presidents come and go, the Administration keeps on going.

Yes, I also get the feeling that Bush would be a quite funny and he would be good value in a social situation


Anyway, you're Scottish! It is impossible to reason with you people, you are all mad. What are you doing sticking of for the English. Have some self respect..


Katze

You mean the British of course?