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matsuiny2004
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08 Apr 2008, 4:25 pm

It seems that we live in a free society so should not all cultures be given equal respect? Why should there be one dominant culture in every country?



monty
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08 Apr 2008, 4:36 pm

matsuiny2004 wrote:
It seems that we live in a free society so should not all cultures be given equal respect? Why should there be one dominant culture in every country?


Because cultures either exert dominance and expand, or they shrink. The pecking order is a natural phenomenon. We will use that freedom to crush you!!



matsuiny2004
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08 Apr 2008, 4:37 pm

monty wrote:
matsuiny2004 wrote:
It seems that we live in a free society so should not all cultures be given equal respect? Why should there be one dominant culture in every country?


Because cultures either exert dominance and expand, or they shrink. The pecking order is a natural phenomenon. We will use that freedom to crush you!!


prove it 8)



Cyanide
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08 Apr 2008, 4:45 pm

Because multiculturalism is a crock that doesn't work.



Awesomelyglorious
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08 Apr 2008, 4:45 pm

matsuiny2004 wrote:
It seems that we live in a free society so should not all cultures be given equal respect? Why should there be one dominant culture in every country?

Because the idea is impossible. Every structure carries with it the ideas and ideals of a certain culture, and society demands that our structures integrate into each other well. Therefore, in order for society to work, we must have a dominant culture so that we have the structures of a dominant culture to keep society working. Multiculturalism and the maintenance of a working system is then only possible, if the ideal isn't to have multiple cultures, but rather integrate multiple cultures into the same cultural framework.



matsuiny2004
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08 Apr 2008, 4:48 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
matsuiny2004 wrote:
It seems that we live in a free society so should not all cultures be given equal respect? Why should there be one dominant culture in every country?

Because the idea is impossible. Every structure carries with it the ideas and ideals of a certain culture, and society demands that our structures integrate into each other well. Therefore, in order for society to work, we must have a dominant culture so that we have the structures of a dominant culture to keep society working. Multiculturalism and the maintenance of a working system is then only possible, if the ideal isn't to have multiple cultures, but rather integrate multiple cultures into the same cultural framework.


maybe something along those lines, but where diversity is repsected. Example I could be really intereseted in easter cultures and beliefs without being judged for them, but still respect the values of the dominat culture.



Awesomelyglorious
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08 Apr 2008, 4:52 pm

matsuiny2004 wrote:
maybe something along those lines, but where diversity is repsected. Example I could be really intereseted in easter cultures and beliefs without being judged for them, but still respect the values of the dominat culture.

Well, that isn't multiculturalism so much as liberalism(not really using the term in the American sense, btw). Liberalism typically exhorts a dominant individualistic culture, that allows for a great variety of self-expression. Whether this self-expression reflects other cultures is typically not a part of the issue.



matsuiny2004
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08 Apr 2008, 5:00 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
matsuiny2004 wrote:
maybe something along those lines, but where diversity is repsected. Example I could be really intereseted in easter cultures and beliefs without being judged for them, but still respect the values of the dominat culture.

Well, that isn't multiculturalism so much as liberalism(not really using the term in the American sense, btw). Liberalism typically exhorts a dominant individualistic culture, that allows for a great variety of self-expression. Whether this self-expression reflects other cultures is typically not a part of the issue.


Multiculturalism would require people to respect their own culture and the one fo the country they are living in though?



Awesomelyglorious
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08 Apr 2008, 5:03 pm

matsuiny2004 wrote:
Multiculturalism would require people to respect their own culture and the one fo the country they are living in though?

Well, hmm.... actually, I think part of my last response depends on where one draws the line for respecting and accepting. Liberalism does not mean open-armedly respecting all differences, only tolerating them. Frankly, if you want people to accept any other culture, then you aren't speaking of multiple cultures, but rather of creating an integrative new culture, which by its nature would be intolerant to more xenophobic cultural traits..... but whatever....



matsuiny2004
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08 Apr 2008, 5:07 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
matsuiny2004 wrote:
Multiculturalism would require people to respect their own culture and the one fo the country they are living in though?

Well, hmm.... actually, I think part of my last response depends on where one draws the line for respecting and accepting. Liberalism does not mean open-armedly respecting all differences, only tolerating them. Frankly, if you want people to accept any other culture, then you aren't speaking of multiple cultures, but rather of creating an integrative new culture, which by its nature would be intolerant to more xenophobic cultural traits..... but whatever....


maybe, I hav been researching on how education would help create more tolerance of cultural differences in society. So far the results are positive :). I think that would be a step in that direction. There is multiculturalism and cultural pluralism, cultural pluralism I do not see happening in a long time or ever, I mean we can not even accept people for having same sex preferences :roll:



monty
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08 Apr 2008, 6:09 pm

matsuiny2004 wrote:
monty wrote:

Because cultures either exert dominance and expand, or they shrink. The pecking order is a natural phenomenon. We will use that freedom to crush you!!


prove it 8)


I can't. I was educationally indoctrinated to the idea of a fluid 'cultural mosaic'. I probably agree with you, was just tweaking you a bit. According to this idea, the pieces of the mosaic are continually moving around and the mix changes over time.



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08 Apr 2008, 6:36 pm

In every society there's a dominant culture. In the United States that's often generalized to "white people" but in reality it's "white people" of a particular social class who have access to the right social network and resources to become dominant.

In much of Latin American "white people" turns in to wealthy landholders or tycoons with the right breeding (e.g. no indigenous heritage), and the same thing happens.

In Africa, it's other Africans from the "right" ethnic groups.



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08 Apr 2008, 6:50 pm

Multiculturalism would mean accepting all cultures are equal and none of their beliefs are "wrong". So, if you follow this to the logical conclusion, what if one culture says "You waved at us in an offensive way, and the penalty is we will eat you". Under multiculturalism, you'd have to agree that the cultural is not wrong in eating you.

Aside from that, some cultures may have stupid beliefs which could negatively impact others or themselves (i.e. one culture says "We believe the sun and the entire universe revolves around to earth the universe was created by a giant ManBearPig, and so you must present it as equally valid as the big bang and heliocentric orbit in school"). Another example might be a culture may believe that having unprotected sex with more people will cure that person of AIDS (which is not only stupid, but negatively impacts others), but with multiculturalism, you'd have to accept that belief and should not try and challenge it.

Everyone tolerating each other would be as AG said more classical liberalism than multiculturalism.



matsuiny2004
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08 Apr 2008, 7:01 pm

Sargon wrote:
Multiculturalism would mean accepting all cultures are equal and none of their beliefs are "wrong". So, if you follow this to the logical conclusion, what if one culture says "You waved at us in an offensive way, and the penalty is we will eat you". Under multiculturalism, you'd have to agree that the cultural is not wrong in eating you.

Aside from that, some cultures may have stupid beliefs which could negatively impact others or themselves (i.e. one culture says "We believe the sun and the entire universe revolves around to earth the universe was created by a giant ManBearPig, and so you must present it as equally valid as the big bang and heliocentric orbit in school"). Another example might be a culture may believe that having unprotected sex with more people will cure that person of AIDS (which is not only stupid, but negatively impacts others), but with multiculturalism, you'd have to accept that belief and should not try and challenge it.

Everyone tolerating each other would be as AG said more classical liberalism than multiculturalism.


that is cultural pluralism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_pluralism

there is science to go on :roll:

you also missed the point that multiculturalism implies that one culture must respect the other so most of those arguments would probably be dropped for their ignorance of other cultures.



Sargon
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08 Apr 2008, 7:25 pm

Quote:
that is cultural pluralism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_pluralism

there is science to go on Rolling Eyes


Well, there is actually different definitions of what multiculturalism based on context and country. According to wikipedia (since you linked it first), "..multiculturalism advocates a society that extends equitable status to distinct cultural and religious groups, with no one culture predominating." You linked to pluralism which says strength can be gained from other cultures essentially (which I did not describe).

As for
Quote:
you also missed the point that multiculturalism implies that one culture must respect the other so most of those arguments would probably be dropped for their ignorance of other cultures.
, my point was other cultures would say their values are just as "correct" as other cultures and must be taught in school for example. Also, arguments would likely not be dropped because of "ignorance of other cultures" since one culture says "we have the right to eat you", and you say "No, you don't", the other culture would likely not accept your belief just because you say so.



Awesomelyglorious
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08 Apr 2008, 7:33 pm

matsuiny2004 wrote:
maybe, I hav been researching on how education would help create more tolerance of cultural differences in society. So far the results are positive :). I think that would be a step in that direction. There is multiculturalism and cultural pluralism, cultural pluralism I do not see happening in a long time or ever, I mean we can not even accept people for having same sex preferences :roll:

Right, ultimately that is a bit of cultural and social engineering though. I guess that isn't avoidable with a public education system, but I hate to see such indoctrination being so explicit. The issue you bring up is wanting one group of people to be indoctrinated away from their views towards your own. I agree that homosexuality should be tolerated, and that homosexuals should be allowed every freedom of heterosexuals, but indoctrinating the opposition makes me queasy and paranoid.