Page 1 of 2 [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

SamAckary
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 270
Location: Berkshire

04 Apr 2009, 4:50 pm

Well my good NT mate has a problem, he has to go to church tomorrow, but he isn't religious, his grand parents are, but he is pretty much not, so I'm thinking of a way to bust him out, kind of like jail, anyone had a similar problem, with solutions maybe?
Its just that its kind of lying to tell a priest that you confess sins, when you don't believe in the nonsense, and although many NTs do enjoy lying about damn right everything, this kind of thing just makes you look slightly odd, any thoughts?


_________________
"When I Die, I Rot"-Bertrand Russell
"War does not prove who is right, only who is left"-Also Russell
"Religion is the Opium of the Masses" -Karl Marx, Father of Communism


LostInEmulation
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 10 Feb 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,047
Location: Ireland, dreaming of Germany

04 Apr 2009, 5:07 pm

If it's just going there and sitting through mass, it might be the lesser evil to do it. I did so on family occasions. At least here, it is perfectly okay to sit silent in the last row.


_________________
I am not a native speaker. Please contact me if I made grammatical mistakes in the posting above.

Penguins cannot fly because what cannot fly cannot crash!


SamAckary
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 270
Location: Berkshire

04 Apr 2009, 5:09 pm

Sadly no, he has to do something about confirming sins and repenting to Jesus, if it was that simple I don't think I would really bother, but its the kind where they treat you like you are the most dispicable piece of turd they ever met :P


_________________
"When I Die, I Rot"-Bertrand Russell
"War does not prove who is right, only who is left"-Also Russell
"Religion is the Opium of the Masses" -Karl Marx, Father of Communism


DentArthurDent
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,884
Location: Victoria, Australia

04 Apr 2009, 5:12 pm

How old is he?


_________________
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance anyday"
Douglas Adams

"Religion is the impotence of the human mind to deal with occurrences it cannot understand" Karl Marx


SamAckary
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 270
Location: Berkshire

04 Apr 2009, 5:19 pm

16, a bit older than me, its a catholic thing, he's not really catholic though, more pro science


_________________
"When I Die, I Rot"-Bertrand Russell
"War does not prove who is right, only who is left"-Also Russell
"Religion is the Opium of the Masses" -Karl Marx, Father of Communism


history_of_psychiatry
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,105
Location: X

04 Apr 2009, 9:45 pm

SamAckary wrote:
16, a bit older than me, its a catholic thing, he's not really catholic though, more pro science


That poor kid. When are parents going to learn that forcing idiotic religion onto their kids will just make them HATE religion in the long run?? Oh well, your friend will probably learn from the relidiocy his parents forced on him and so he'll never do the same god-awful (no pun intended) thing to his children.


_________________
X


metelz
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 127

04 Apr 2009, 9:53 pm

You want to save your friend from being saved :wink: ? Hmm. I don't suppose he could just tell his parents he dosn't want to be part of their church and politley refuse to go?



TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

05 Apr 2009, 3:53 am

He is old enough to bite the bullet and say he doesn't want to go and he is not a believer. If he goes because of expectations, especially to confession then he is a hypocrite. I'd sooner be true to my convictions than live a lie just to meet other people's expectations. Sooner or later you have to take a stand for yourself. 16 is old enough to do so in such a matter.


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 99
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

05 Apr 2009, 4:00 am

TallyMan wrote:
He is old enough to bite the bullet and say he doesn't want to go and he is not a believer. If he goes because of expectations, especially to confession then he is a hypocrite. I'd sooner be true to my convictions than live a lie just to meet other people's expectations. Sooner or later you have to take a stand for yourself. 16 is old enough to do so in such a matter.


Ideally I'd agree with you but it very much depends upon his personal situation. The country is in a financial mess and to be tossed out on the street with no place to live and no job is hardly a fun situation. A bit of hypocrisy now and then adds spice and reality to life. A couple of more years can make all the difference.



SamAckary
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 270
Location: Berkshire

05 Apr 2009, 4:45 am

Well honestly its not even his parents, they have to go because of their parents, kind of a strange respect your elders circle that some people have, its too late as well now :P

But Yeah TallyMan I agree, I pointed out to him that it was hypocrisy to do such a thing and is pretty much lying which no one should have to do, of course as far as the NTs I know go they don't seem to mind :lol:


_________________
"When I Die, I Rot"-Bertrand Russell
"War does not prove who is right, only who is left"-Also Russell
"Religion is the Opium of the Masses" -Karl Marx, Father of Communism


Dussel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Age: 60
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,788
Location: London (UK)

05 Apr 2009, 8:21 am

SamAckary wrote:
Well my good NT mate has a problem, he has to go to church tomorrow, but he isn't religious, his grand parents are, but he is pretty much not, so I'm thinking of a way to bust him out, kind of like jail, anyone had a similar problem, with solutions maybe?


Two suggestions from prominent people of the past:

The later king Frederick II of Prussia was in the opposite to his father King Frederick-Wilhelm I not religious, but was forced to attend church a heir apparent. He owned therefore a set of French novels with a cover of black leather so they looked like prayer books to read in church.

Lieselotte of Palatine, the sister in law of king Louis XIV of France, wrote in one of her numerous letters that she enjoyed church because it was a always nice to have a nap during the day.



anna-banana
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Aug 2008
Age: 41
Gender: Female
Posts: 5,682
Location: Europe

05 Apr 2009, 10:01 am

I have been bullied into such things so many times in my life...

the last time I did it (and the last time ever it was - I got voluntarily excommunicated from the Catholic church straight after that to avoid such situations in future) I did it for a friend whom i grew up with- she told me that she could not imagine having anyone else as her maid of honour so she literally begged me to agree.

I treated it as a sort of an acting job- I just played my role, stayed in the character for the ceremony, without giving it much thought. it was a job, that was all it was.


_________________
not a bug - a feature.


Henriksson
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Age: 33
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,534
Location: Sweden

05 Apr 2009, 10:55 am

To be honest, the few times I've been to church I've had the urge to get up there and have a stirring speech about the falseness of religion.


_________________
"Purity is for drinking water, not people" - Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.


Chibi_Neko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,485
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

05 Apr 2009, 11:12 am

Why can't he just say "I don't want to go"?
I'd say that every Sunday to my mom, but she still dragged me to church, but I was a child then, when I became a teen I put my foot down and stayed put. My mom was furious, but it did not last long. My dad never cared.... in fact, he stopped going after I stopped.

You should 'want' to go to church, not 'made' to go, and I think it's wrong to lie about wanting to go when you really don't. Forcing someone to church is only going to give the concept a bad image.... if the person was left alone.... who knows, maybe he/she will want to give church a second chance and go on their own.

I actually blame my mom for giving me my original sour perspective of religion, the rest came after I left home and got access to books.


_________________
Humans are intelligent, but that doesn't make them smart.


TallyMan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 40,061

05 Apr 2009, 11:41 am

Chibi_Neko wrote:
Forcing someone to church is only going to give the concept a bad image.


Wandering slightly off topic, but that is how many of us viewed the enforced morning assembly in school when I was a kid. Forced to sing songs of praise to the Christian God and to say the lord's prayer aloud. Failure to comply resulted in a thrashing with a cane in the headmaster's study.
I'm sure that plus the enforced Christian religious education classes were enough to put most of us kids off Christianity for life. Certainly, very few attended church by choice after leaving school. The churches in England are now virtually empty. People just don't like having religion jammed down their throats.


_________________
I've left WP indefinitely.


Chibi_Neko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,485
Location: Newfoundland, Canada

05 Apr 2009, 11:54 am

TallyMan wrote:
The churches in England are now virtually empty. People just don't like having religion jammed down their throats.


I hear ya.
The small comminuty that I am from have less and less people attending church every year... reason being is the only people in attendance are the elderly, and they are dieing off. I think the youngest people that go now are in their 40s.

I am going to take a shot out of the dark and say in about 30-40 years, the churches will be closed down... opened only for weddings and funerals.... some might even be torn down.

It has already happened to the Catholic church. There are catholics back home, but there are fewer and fewer every year, and it came to the point that I only saw the lights on in the church if there was a funeral. The church was torn down last year.


_________________
Humans are intelligent, but that doesn't make them smart.