Gays in the military reconsidered

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For the most part Ive been opposed to the US Military barring gays from enlisting and serving simply because they're homosexual. But when I read stories like THIS: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -camp.html Im not so sure anymore. As unfair as it may be there do seem to be some valid reasons to question whether gays really should be in the armed forces. Sexual tensions is VERY BAD for morale as this story clearly illustrates and there is the very real posibility that gay personnel who are in higher ranks will use their authority to extract sexual favors from subordinates. This already happens to women serving in the US military and next to NOTHING is done about it.

Last edited by Haliphron on 09 Apr 2009, 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

So are you opposed to women serving. ?

Not entirely but as I stated in another thread I dont think its really that good of an idea. Women soldiers face a seriously high risk of being raped-by enemy soliders if they are captured and taken as a POW, or by their fellow soliders.

Your link is broken.

As long as they're perfectly aware of that risk, which they should be I see no issue.

Not all women in the military are soldiers. And, to put it in a little perspective, soldiers on a battlefield are also in danger of getting shot in the face or having their legs blown off. And, if captured, might face starvation, solitary confinement, disease, humiliation, and/or torture.

Mr Cochrane was on the phone to his son when he shot himself. "Paul said he would speak to his mother later and then there was a crack and the phone went off."

how very odd. we had an alleged suicide by a soldier (Jake Kovco) and it's dubious that it was suicide. murder is often passed off as suicide, it's seem the easiest way to get away with it.

When someone kills themselves with gunfire, there are often powder burns on their hands AND ballistics can determine if the the bullet the killed them traveled directly out of the barrel and into their body or if it traveled some distance through the air. Whats even MORE amazing is that ballistics experts can trace the bullet to the gun that it was fired from. So if his death were a homicide that would mean either he didnt own a gun OR the bullet that struck him wasnt fired from the gun he ownd. The only real way to fake a suicide convincingly is to strangle the victim and make the rope used to strangle them into a nuse to be hung from the ceiling. MANY rape victims commit suicide as a result of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder which ALWAYS occurs in the wake of being sexually assaulted.

On that basis, male soldiers have a danger of being sodomized by enemy soldiers who might be homosexual. Therefore, by your logic both males and females should be kept out of the military. It's a worthwhile thought.

The odds of female soldiers being raped by the enemy are Vastly Greater then the odds of a male soldier being sodomized by a gay enemy combatant. So your assessment of my logic is totally incorrect. Sorry.

Thing is Haliphron, There have been homosexuals in all militaries since the dawn of Militia so your argument that they should be banned is redundant. Twenty of the Twenty Six NATO countries permit openly homosexual people, the Israeli defence force likewise.

The article you use to support your feelings shows that the Cochrane was more a victim of neglect by his superiors than the homosexual bullying.

The practice of bastardisation in militaries has been a problem for centuries and has caused countless suicides. It has taken on a very public debate in Australia and anyone caught out 'hazing' subordinates is dealt with.

The problem in this instance is not that the perpetrator was homosexual rather that he was a bully that was allowed free reign.

As to women in the military you are right. Men cannot control themselves nor should they be expected to and therefore women should wear a full body covering and only go beyond the confines of the family home if accompanied by a trusted protector

The Spartan Hoplites were bound largely by homosexual affections. They were the best warriors in the world for their time. The way youngsters were mentored after they entered the apogoge was to be taken into the care of an older soldier. There was often a homosexual bond between the old man and the younger man. It worked out fine for the Spartans.

ruveyn

What worked >2000 years ago isnt necessarily going to work today.


And DentArthurDent, you cant expect the military to function like the workplace if its going to do its job and do it well. Women soldiers run the risk of getting knocked up by men soldiers and when a woman is pregnant that means she is going to have to be discharged since pregnancy DOES impare a womans ability to be a soldier, like it or lump it.

I was going to reply, but DentArthurDent went ahead and wrecked this thread for me. Big ups D.A.D.

Nope.

Females in the military are not given an automatic discharge over getting pregnant.

And you have some serious misconceptions about how the military works. There are quite a lot of support jobs that don't involve being on the front lines (food, logistics, supplies, intelligence, administration, etc.). There are also quite a number of jobs that are permanently stationed in the continental US. Someone has to run military bases, train new troops, teach military schools, fix equipment stateside, fetch coffee for admirals in the pentagon, make contracting arrangements with corporations, etc., etc., etc.

Before sending a soldier overseas there is no doubt a medical screening process, and they would have to be incredibly stupid not to put a pregnancy test in for females.

There are also such things as orders, and no doubt units on the front lines have orders that would prevent female soldiers from becoming pregnant in a war zone. I don't know off the top of my head exactly what form these orders would take, but probably they would simply order female soldiers in or scheduled to be in a combat zone not to get pregnant.

I have cousins in the military, and I have a friend whose father is in the military, as well as several high school classmates deployed to Iraq at the moment. I just am curious, am I a gray area in being allowed in the military, as I'm bisexual? I'd be pretty valuable as a Russian or Japanese translator, oh well...
Regarding the worries about gay soldiers raping male soldiers, as well as women getting assaulted in the military: If you want to change that, you don't do it by banning those groups from the military. If that change is going to come, then change the military culture which allow such a hostile and traumatizing environment to occur without raising eyebrows. Workers in all fields are the best workers when they care about the person next to them in combat, not when they're frightened of them.